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Falcon67
Enthusiast
| Posts: 341
| Joined: 12/06
Posted: 04/04/07 07:08 AM
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If anyone's interested, I can detail the new 351C I'm putting together for the Falcon this year. Trying to hit the end of the month - might make it, might not. The heads are still on the bench. It's only time and money, huh? I did get the block issues worked out. I discovered some cracks in the water jacket I the lifter valley. I should have spotted them before the machine work, but somehow I missed it during the first cleaning. I've got a good guy on the machine end, so he was able to fix the issues without a hassle. The cracks are pinned and I'll put a little Splash Zone epoxy on them to make sure they stay sealed up. Once the short block is together and the heads are on, I'll pressure test to be sure. The 351C has a "dry" intake, so that's easy to do and the intake can be off.
The basic design specs are 357 CID (.030 over, 3.5" stroke), zero deck with flat tops, internal balance, Crane solid flat tappet 238/248, 4V closed chanber heads with 10.7ish:1, 4V Funnelweb intake and a 750DP Holley/Proform carb. I intend to run on either 91 Shell + 10% methanol or on straight E85. Supply is a problem on the E85 here - closest station is 180 miles.
Lifter valley:
![]() One in the deck:
![]() All scrubbed and painted - ready for parts. Bores are .030 over, honed for a moly ring set. Block was cut .016 to put the pistons at zero on the deck. Durabond cam bearings should last a long time in this engine:
![]() I still have to test fit the MSD distributor to make sure the gear is set correctly and won't bind against the boss in the block.
The heads are getting Parker Racing port tongues to go along with the Funnelweb intake. The ports CC at 242 raw and 220 with the stuffers. A mild porting job will put the intakes at 300 CFM+ by .500 lift
![]() The glue - nasty stuff, expensive, does the job:
1967 Falcon 4 door 351C-4V 1970 Mustang 351C-2V http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod Owner built, owner abused.
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gclark
Administrator
| Posts: 56
| Joined: 07/06
Posted: 04/05/07 12:26 PM
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Good thing you saw the cracks before assembly at least. That could've been real exciting if you hadn't.
I haven't built but a couple of engines before. Have you had good luck with the tongues before?
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gclark
Administrator
| Posts: 56
| Joined: 07/06
Posted: 04/05/07 12:28 PM
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BTW
I'm interested in hearing and seeing more!
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Falcon67
Enthusiast
| Posts: 341
| Joined: 12/06
Posted: 04/07/07 09:20 AM
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![]() I’ve fitted the oil pump to check the free play on the drive shaft with and without the distributor. Fastener sidebar - I prefer studs to bolts wherever I can use them. It’s less strain on the block threads and in lots of cases it makes assembly easier and more accurate. On the oil pump drive shaft, you have to make sure the little retainer clip is in the right place. It’s pretty easy on these FRPP moly shafts; you just run it down on one end. The pump is a Melling HV pump – M84AHV. Good pumps, but I still go through them (more on that later).
![]() MSD distributors and Fords have a problem history where the distributor gear is concerned. This is a model 8580. If the gear is not in the right place, it can bind against the block. That’s not good and it throws the gear mesh out a bit. All that can add up to a destroyed cam and/or distributor gear. I have not had this problem on any of my motors, but I still check anyway. I bolt everything together and push down hard on the distributor shaft and check for binding. None found here. An added benefit of mockups like this is that it reminds you to go find which box or bag has that durn holddown clamp. Side note – this motor came to me in pieces, so my “miscellaneous” parts stash has saved my tail several times on this assembly.
![]() With the cam installed, I feel for backlash in the gearing. Not the most scientific method, but I don’t have anything to get down in there. There’s very little play and the gear looks to be on the centerline of the cam. The clip also clears everything.
![]() Cam all moly’ed up and the studs installed, ready for the crank.
![]() The crank all snug in it’s bearings, ARP and Moroso windage tray studs torqued to 85 ft/lbs using ARP lube. End play comes out to .006. Spec is .004~.008. Next step will be to gap the rings and put a couple of piston/rod assemblies in to set the cam timing.
Might get some done today – if I have enough propane in the garage heater. It’s an early April Saturday here in the south, Easter weekend, spring time, flowers blooming, trees budding – it’s snowing and 29F outside. Forecast is for mid 70s on Monday. Figures.
1967 Falcon 4 door 351C-4V 1970 Mustang 351C-2V http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod Owner built, owner abused.
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Falcon67
Enthusiast
| Posts: 341
| Joined: 12/06
Posted: 04/07/07 09:25 AM
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Tongues - This is my first use of the tongues, but many others use them with good results. They are made to work with the intake, so I consider them a must to make the combination work at it's best. With tongue:
![]() Mismatch without tongue:
1967 Falcon 4 door 351C-4V 1970 Mustang 351C-2V http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod Owner built, owner abused.
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Falcon67
Enthusiast
| Posts: 341
| Joined: 12/06
Posted: 04/07/07 09:50 PM
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![]() The workhorses here are a set of Eagle 5.78 rods and Probe light weight pistons. These deviated from stock weight enough that it took four slugs of “heavy metal” (tungsten) and a bunch of laps on the balance machine to get the crank right. This has all been test fitted before – journals mic’ed, rods assembled with bearings and run through with a bore gauge, clearances checked, etc. The rods come numbered –randomly – and I used those numbers to mark the bearings so everything goes back together as checked. Another reason to do a full mock up is to measure the deck so the block can be cut to put the pistons right on the deck. On this assembly, all were .016 down – pretty easy. Not all work out like that. Actually, that’s the first one. This also my first time using floating pins and I’ve been told to lay in extra band aids for working with the spiro locks.
![]() The Probes came with a lot of sharp edges and I massaged them off to prevent hot spots. ![]() Good rods demand good tools. I didn't really budget for a rod vice. But when the rods came out of the box the first time and I looked at the approximate torque figures (nearly 75 ft/lbs), I saw right off that a couple of pieces of wood in the bench vice wasn't going to cut it. So, I popped for a Proform rod vice from Summit. It's a really nice tool to have for this job. I also use a rod bolt stretch gauge. After using the stretch gauge, I’ll never put in rods without one. The rod bolts are the most stressed fasteners in the engine, so anything that helps make sure they are correctly installed is just good insurance. ![]() One down 7 to go. And, no holes in any of my fingers. You pull the spiro locks apart so they look like a short spring, then just kind of wind them into the groove in the piston. A small screwdriver helps to work them in. The first ½ turn in the hardest. The Probes use two locks per side.
You’ll notice that I did a lot of pre-checking and measuring to check for problems. My experience has taught me to check as much as I can so problems get worked out early on. And each engine teaches me something new. Guess what I learned today? This one just taught me to check all the piston ring groves when a set of new pistons come out of the box. These pistons are supposed to be supplied with 1/16, 1/16, 3/16 ring grooves (top, 2nd, oil). Well, this set was apparently cut wrong because the oil ring grooves are cut for a 3mm oil ring. I’ll be making some phone calls Monday morning. This oversight will probably end up costing about $120 for a set of good 3mm oil rings. I figured this out about the same time the shop heater ran out of gas, so I just went in the house, got some coffee and watched US Nationals highlights on Speed. Bummer.
1967 Falcon 4 door 351C-4V 1970 Mustang 351C-2V http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod Owner built, owner abused.
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Falcon67
Enthusiast
| Posts: 341
| Joined: 12/06
Posted: 08/30/07 12:45 PM
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In case you thought this project was abandoned
I'm been hacking at the heads for a couple of months. Looks like we're ready to take them to the head guy and get the final valve jobs and prep for assembly. Again, I'm living proof that the published numbers mean zip - you want to know the details, you have to measure. These are stock D1AE-GA and the published spec is 62.8. I smoothed and removed very little metal from the chambers and cleaned them up around the valves a bit. The quick check speced them as: #1 - 67.2cc, #4 - 66.6cc, #5 67cc, #8 66.6cc Exhaust port measured 138 cc, intake with stuffer 224 cc.
I'll cut the heads .012 to true them up and call it good. That should reduce chamber size to about 65 cc. Piston-to-valve clearance is WAY over .100, so no problems there. Push rod length measures out at 8.300 the way thing sit right now, puts the rocker pattern right in the middle of the stem. Guess I'll wait and see what the .010 cut does to it. Might take .050 more out of the push rod. I'll be using 3/8 pushrods - same cost as 5/16, so why not.
Pretty parts:
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I really am building a new motor, it's not just a rumor...
![]() The top of the valve train will be double Crane springs, Crane Pro Series pushrods, Comp titanium retainers and super locks (got a deal on them - $100) and a Jomar girdle.
Cam timing is dialed in at 106 centerline, target was 107. That's 3 degrees retarded from Crane's stright up specs, but simulation shows its good for better torque and HP over the 4000-6800 range, right where I need it. Converter is designed to stall around 4200, we'll see when it hits the track. Note - had to use an FRPP 9 way timing chain to get the cam dialed right.
The intake is a 4V Funnelweb - Funnelweb details
The carb is a home brew Proform 750. Just got it finally lined out, apparently the front proform metering block had some problem and kept me from finding the tune. I replaced it with a stock 750 DP front block. Tested it on the wife's 70 Mustang's 351C race engine. Tuning stopped at a 4.5 power valve, #40 and #37 shooters, 74 and 88 jets. The big problem now is that the Mustang 60' went down .03~.05, ET went up .07 and MPH went up 1/2 over her old 650 DP. Now, she won't let me have the carb back.
1967 Falcon 4 door 351C-4V 1970 Mustang 351C-2V http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod Owner built, owner abused.
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Falcon67
Enthusiast
| Posts: 341
| Joined: 12/06
Posted: 09/25/07 07:49 AM
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Well, it's now in the car and running.
![]() The pushrods and guide plates were the last items. I tried to get Crane parts but they were back ordered everywhere. My head guy has connections at Manley and I was able to get some parts finally, after 3 day UPS took 4 days. The Crane double springs were set up at 130 seat and about 350 open at full lift. Chamber size ended up at 65cc with compression right on 10.5:1. The Isky "special oiling solid lifters" were installed with the other parts and the lash set at .025 cold. The lifters have a .024 EDM hole bored in the face for extra lobe oiling. Installed the 4V Funnelweb and put a Moroso 1" 4 hole spacer and a known good 650DP on the motor. The Break in went as follows: 5 quarts of CI-4 Rotella 15w-40 and a full quart of GM EOS, prime engine and start. Had to dial in nearly 40 degres of timing to get it running. Ran it 5 minutes at 2000~2400 then stop to check things. Restart, run 10 minutes and then a cool down period, then 5 minutes more. During the 10 minute run, temp drifted from 180 (t-stat setting) to around 200F. Not unexpected, being that the car was in the shop with just fans blowing at it. Deck seal and the cooling system seem to be in good shape. I intend to try and run the car at 180 because of the higher compression. I normally run my engines at 200F.
Last minute issues included the carb needing rework, deciding to lock distributor timing in at 36 degrees and another crack in the block on the passenger side front. Moroso Ceramic Seal plugged the crack for now; well, at least good enough for the system to hold 7 psi. Side note - Having brass plugs in the block drains and an electric pump make flushign the motor a breeze.
I went through the 650DP and put in a 3.5 power valve and removed some filler wires from the idle feed restrictions in the front metering block. Idle vacuum was around 7 and rough. Checked the Moroso spacer and noted that the gasket seal between the bottom of the spacer and the intake was marginal and that the spacer had voids in the bottom around the throttle bores. I swapped on a Jegs 4 hole spacer that was solid all over and that cleared up the idle a bunch.
With a 4200 stall converter and such low vacuum making the motor not want to idle for squat, there was no need for an advance "curve", so I just locked out the MSD and set it where I wanted it. I started with 34. This effort got me a prize - a new Craftsman dial back timing light to replace the old Craftsman that I've had for 33 years. You can't read those pretty engraved marks on the shiny SFI balancer, so I needed a dial back and just drew a big line on the balancer at zero with a markert. It now idles at about 1100 when fully warmed up.
The header evac tubes are also working. The exhaust on each side consists of a reducer from 3 1/2 to 3" pipe, about 10" of 3" pipe, a 3" short Dynomax Bullet muffler and a 3" Flowmaster turndown. I'll add a balance tube after the season. A bung for an oxygen sensor is welded in the right collector.
With most issues solved ot at least on hold, I warmed the motor and set the lash to the recommneded .022. Had to rework the air pan and hood seal to work with the 7" tall Funnelweb intake. This was all done Wednesday and there was a test and tune scheduled for Thursday only that week. Track was closed on Firday & Saturday becuase all of us were going to the fall nats at Dallas. So I put some 91 Shell unleaded in it and loaded it up.
Thursday brought some family things into the mix, but we had to make some check out runs so it was unload, test, test, load and leave. You work with the time you've got. First pass was gentel to check mix with the narrow band O2 sensor and a multimeter. Looked OK at about 700mv, so I put on the helmet and beat on it. Made three runs, missing the 1-2 shift point on each because the car revs really quick now. Seat time will fix that. Made two passes, then bumped the timing to 36 and made one more.
Weather: baro 28.05, 84F, 47% RH - DA 4030' Staging at 2000 RPM
Run - 60' - ET/MPH (1/8 mile track) 7:32pm - 1.663 - 7.444/91.71 7:57pm - 1.668 - 7.433/92.29 8:15pm - 1.663 - 7.418/92.38 (timing +2)
I have to think about the converter - it flashes to around 4200 but on the 1-2 and 2-3 shift it only falls back to around 5000. It's not what I'm used to, but if the car stays fast and consistant I'll not care much. It's looser that for sure as the car crosses the 1/8 mile stripe at 5600. Post run checkout at the house revealed a loose throttle connection and that I forgot to put a cap on the manifold port in the carb where I had the vacuum gauge connected. Du-Oh! Plugs looked clean, so the mix and timing are OK for now. More tuning after the nats. Since I was expecting around 7.60, I was pleasntly surprised. I loosly figure that at somewhere around 360~400 RWHP. The car weighs about 3350, maybe 3400 with driver. It weighed exactly 3005 without driver and with 5 gallons in the cell before the addition of the 8 point roll bar and the sub frame connectors. Since I crossed under that magic line in the rule book, it's a good thing I already have an SFI 3.2A/1 jacket, a roll bar, aftermarket axles and that my SFI 16.1 5 point harness is up to date. The flex plate and balancer are also SFI, even though the ET/speed doesn't require it. I ordered a Holley 750DP main body and will try and use my "Magic Holley Leftover Parts Box" to build a usable 750DP for the car. Before the Friday T&T and Saturday's points race.
1967 Falcon 4 door 351C-4V 1970 Mustang 351C-2V http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod Owner built, owner abused.
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Falcon67
Enthusiast
| Posts: 341
| Joined: 12/06
Posted: 10/02/07 06:43 AM
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Now with cheezy video of a 7.29 @ 93.7 MPH pass
1967 Falcon 4 door 351C-4V 1970 Mustang 351C-2V http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod Owner built, owner abused.
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ltdmonk
New User
| Posts: 23
| Joined: 10/07
Posted: 10/22/07 01:48 PM
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way cool... that's fast. clevlands Rock! boowing deep
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Falcon67
Enthusiast
| Posts: 341
| Joined: 12/06
Posted: 10/23/07 05:25 AM
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Thanks! Still running the 650DP - never got finished tuning the 750. Had another 7.29 last Friday. Normally running mid-high 7.30s at 93, last pass Saturday was 7.38. That's at 4200 feet density altitude - the air has sucked around here all summer. Last race this weekend, if high pressure holds and the temps fall in as predicted, we'll all be waving time slips and smiling on Sunday.
1967 Falcon 4 door 351C-4V 1970 Mustang 351C-2V http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod Owner built, owner abused.
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