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Tony
New User
| Posts: 2
| Joined: 12/06
Posted: 01/13/08 04:48 PM
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I have an A code 289 with low mileage in a 1967 Fastback GT, that I have equipped the engine with headers, an Edelbrock Performer manifold, and a 750 vacuum secondary Holley and lots of chassis mods. I would like to put in a hydraulic roller to up the horsepower. The car will mainly be street driven with a few trips to the track each year; but I do want to have much better performance than a K code engine. I checked out Crane Cams and Comp, and the offerings look good. The real confusion comes in what push rods, rockers, and springs to use. I will likely buy these three first and install them, and a few months later put in the cam, for time considrations mainly to be able to replace the original 40 year old valve seals. I would appreciate anyones comments and experience on the situation. Tony
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Falcon67
Enthusiast
| Posts: 341
| Joined: 12/06
Posted: 01/16/08 07:36 AM
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You'll want to wait and do this as a complete upgrade. If it's a rail rocker setup on the car now (my 67 was) then you can't just swap the rockers. And you sure don't want to run hydro roller rated springs on an old flat tappet. Also, the roller tappets are way different than the regular hydros, so buying pushrods now is a waste of time and money - you don't need to replace the existing and anything that works with the roller won't work in the engine now.
To do it right, you'll have to stand for the car to be down for a little bit. Pick the cam you want, then get the springs recommended. Get new retainers and 10 degree locks that are compatible with the springs.
You'll get maximum return from your investment if you have the heads freshened - guides reworked or replaced as necessary, springs installed with modern seals, seats freshened up. You'll have to cut the heads and install screw in studs and guide plates if you plan to run roller rockers as replacements for the stockers. (you should, IMHO) You can then purchase pushrods recommended by the cam company or buy a checking pushrod, verify the geometry and then order what's needed. Usually the cam supplier can get you what you need in a mostly stock application.
PS - if you pull those heads off and don't pocket port them at least a little, IMHO you're throwing money down a dry hole. I don't think you're going to get K code performance out of a street roller with bone stock heads. 250~260 maybe. Since I'm full of opinions this morning, sell that Performer and get a Performer Air Gap 7521 - it's a better intake for what you're doing.
1967 Falcon 4 door 351C-4V 1970 Mustang 351C-2V http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod Owner built, owner abused.
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phill
New User
| Posts: 6
| Joined: 01/08
Posted: 01/16/08 08:26 AM
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Ok. You can go ahead and put springs capable of handlign a hydraulic roller like you want on your engine. You just need to make sure you get a spring you can set at a high enough installed/open height to get the correct seat pressure for a flat tappet cam, then later adjust the installed height down to boost your seat/open pressure for a roller cam. This isn't hard, you either ue +/- valve locks and/or shims to set your installed height correctly.
Pushrods will change because the hydraulic roller lifters will be a different length than the stock flat tappet lifters, so pushrod length will change accordingly. For pushrods I recommend at least a heavywall pushrod, the good one-pice ones if you can afford them.
Also, don't forget a good double roller timing chain for this install.
I'd recommend doing cam/rockers/springs/pushrods all at once, but if you're itching to go ahead and do something, save the pushrods for when you convert to a roller cam, and just change the rockers and springs.
On a cam for your engine, because you'll be driving mostly on the street, don't go with anything that has less than 112 degress of lobe sep. A street motor needs to make good vacuum for torque and fuel efficiency, but it'll still run good att he track for what you want the car to be.
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Falcon67
Enthusiast
| Posts: 341
| Joined: 12/06
Posted: 01/17/08 07:25 AM
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After reviewing some of the hydro roller offerings, phil is correct - you can get away with changing the springs. The Crane 96874-16 is about the limit, but I'd have them set up per Crane specs and not half way. 128 lbs seat pressure is not much and the stock cam won't get anywhere near the lift needed to hit the 330+ open pressure number.
Also, remember that to use a roller in a 67 block you'll have to run either a reduced base circle cam plus a conversion to a stock retainer "spyder" to keep the lifters in the bore or run a standard roller with link bar lifters.
IMHO, you're running up a bill for no particular reason. If you look at the HR-216/325-2S-12 that happens to call for the spring noted, it's just a 216/224 duration but with .520/.542 lift. It's a 112 LSA cam, so it's a nice street grind. At Summit Racing, that cam is $409. Springs $114, lifters $499.95.
Compare to a good hydro flat tappet - Crane H-272-2. 216/228 @ .050, 112 LSA, .484/.512 lift. A decent sizes cam for a 289 with stock heads. Cost @ Summit - Cam is $120, Springs $99, lifters $90.
I doubt that you'd know the difference between the two when driving the car. I've personally run the H-272, it's sitting in a 302 in the corner of the shop. That engine has mildly ported GT-40 iron heads (read - Lightning 351W truck heads $400 reman from Ford) , a 600 DP Holley, Edelbrock RPM Air Gap, 1 5/8 headers. It makes about 270 HP in that configuration - enough to push a 3000 lb 70 Mustang with a TCI Street Fighter converter and 4.11 gears to 13.03 @ 103 in the quarter mile. It idles at 14 in/hg. Drive it anywhere.
I'm not saying don't do a roller - they are good cams and have advantages. Just walk through your build with your eyes open.
1967 Falcon 4 door 351C-4V 1970 Mustang 351C-2V http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod Owner built, owner abused.
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