Hey,

I've been away a while, but now I am back. I have a low mileage 1970 Cougar. It has the 351-C with 2BBL. It is an automatic car with manual drums (it stops pretty good anyway).

I have an older Edelbrock intake manifold (#2750) which is not yet installed. I am a little confused about the carburetor choices. I would like to have a functioning choke (divorced, electric, hot air?). This car at this point has stock cam and heads. No headers, just dual exhaust.

What is a good carb (brand, etc, that doesn't require a lot of tinkering), appropriate cfm's, and accessories.

I understand that we have to have some sort of linkage or kick down part added for an automatic? True?

Any help would be appreciated.

View my car here: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2931144

Thanks!

~ Steve ~  

On my '70 Mach, I went with a Holley Street Avenger 670 CFM with electric choke.  Starts first time every time and nice healthly boost over the 600 CFM Holley # 1850 that was on it when I got it.  

An Edelbrock 600 #1406 is a good carb for that application.  Easy to tune if necessary and the choke (electric) works well - better than any Holley choke I've worked with.  The boosters in the Edelbrock are more efficient than the typical Holley, which makes it a better driver in my experience.  Consider a 1/2 or 1" plastic spacer under the carb to keep the heat soak down and if your climate is reasonably warm, block the exhaust crossovers in the intake.  Aluminum conducts heat a lot quicker than cast iron.

Hey, nice cat.  

As noted from the previous posts you’re going to get multiple opinions on carburetors (LOL).    Edelbrock carbs have come a long way over the years and some people do swear by them nowadays.  My Holley ownership and experiences dates back to 1970 with a 302-2V in a then new Mustang.  It was always easy to get parts for and not difficult to swap out jets and other items as compared to a standard Autolite, Motorcraft, Carter, or Quadrajet from the manufactures’.  I’ve always had good luck and no problems with Holley’s, but that’s just a personal opinion and experiences.

You do have a very nice Cougar and very low mileage too.  That has to be a difficult decision to mod or leave stock.  However, it’s your car and if you intend to keep, drive, and enjoy it --- do it your way and enjoy the ride.    

Just to clarify - I use Holleys on all the race cars here and on any performance application.  But having used the Ed 600s over the years, I'd pick one of those over your standard 1850 Holley or equivalent for a street application.  I bought and Ed 600 in 1996 and it performed very well, even back then.   It was a daily driver carb for several years.  I've had a couple on various engines.  When the wife was racing a 67 Mustang, the 302 had the old Ed 600 on it.  It ran low 13s on that mild motor and never gave me a hassle.  When we upped the 302's power and put it in the 70 with a converter and big gears, we switched to a 600DP Holley.  I fugure the Holley is worth about .1 in the 1/8 mile, more or less.  The Ed is stored in a big ziplock bag, waiting for it's next assignment.  

My favorite carb here is the 650DP on my 351C - paid a whopping $40 for it at a swap meet, put a $90 base plate on it.  It's been on my race car for 10 years now.  

Thanks for the replies, guys! Much appreciated. If anyone else would like to chime in, i would like to hear from you.

Okay. Here is the lowdown on the whole thing (and thanks for the kind words on my car).

Since it is a 2 bbl, I really want a 4 bbl on the car. The car nut in me is just not satisfied with a 2 bbl carb. I was going to go stock on the parts, but either I get an Australian 4 bbl manifold that fits 2 bbl Cleveland heads and a rebuilt factory 4 bbl carb, or I could replace my 2-V heads with the 4-V heads and use the stock 4 bbl manifold/carb combo.....

or

....just get a Edlebrock intake and a (undecided) 4 bbl carb that are aftermarket. Leave the heads alone. That is the route I ultimately decided on. That is why I am exploring carb options. I am also adding a modern type (point-less) ignition. The car runs well and is quick....I am hoping it can be quicker. It drives just like new. It was originally owned by an old man (typical story!) who didn't drive it much, but tweaked the body a little getting it in and out of his garage.

I am 46, and I think I have forgotten so much of what I learned mechanically 25 - 30 years ago. Even tuning seems like a chore anymore. I do remember having a Holley on a GTO and a Camaro and blowing power valves, or having to adjust a float or changing a spring for the secondaries to open at some particular vacuum. Now, I just don't want to do that. I want an easy to live with carb, that won't drive me up the wall, that delivers consistent performance without always having to tweak it or adjust it or replace a leaking gasket.

Whew! It doesn't sound like I want my cake and to eat it too, does it?

Thanks again,

Steve  

Well, #1 you've got a 351C and that makes it all special (LOL - my sig gives that away).  It depends on what you want the car to do.  Our 70 Mustang has a 351C with a set of home ported 2V open chamber heads on it.  These would be the heads that most folks would say are "truck heads".  The engine makes around 400 HP with the heads and the car runs nearly 12 flat in the 1/4 mile and would run 11's with a bigger cam and converter.  So don't blow off the 2V heads or let people tell you different.  

Some things to think about:  Run the Ed 351C-2V 4bbl intake and if your climate is reasonably warm, block the exhaust crossovers with some pieces of .015 stainless steel shim stock.  The 2750 is a good intake for a stock type vehicle.  You could also consider a mild performance cam - a 204/214 item would give more performance without doing anything to idle quality.  If you replace the cam, be sure to get a degree wheel and study up - finding real TDC, making sure the cam is spot on and that the damper marks are accurate can be a big power maker on a 351C.  Devils in the details, etc.  

An 11" street performance converter - like a TCI Break-a-way or similar - will also perk things up without sacrificing any driveability.  It's a lot of work to install, but they do help - especially if there has been a cam change.

For electronic ignition, you can swap in a Ford Duraspark ignition system.  Or, any of the aftermarket systems from MSD, Mallory, Accel, etc will trigger off the stock points or a Duraspark distributor.  With points, these system use the points as a trigger only, so there's little current that flows through the points and you would only use up a set if you wore out the rubbing block.  A good set of points will RPM to the limit of the cam and intake.  Any of the "multistrike" ignition from Mallory or MSD (that fire multiple times usually below 3000 RPM) will help the car because of the lazy chambers in those 2V heads.  The current setup on the race cars (both same) is an MSD 8580 dist., Mallory 685 ignition and Mallory 29440 coil.  This setup has been beat hard on both cars for several years with zero issues.

You can also recurve a stock type distributor to get more performance - an open chamber head can run 12~16 degrees lead with about a 36~38 degree limit.  This alone can make a big difference in a factory stock type 351C.  Go easy and experiment to keep the engine out of detonation.  You could try a 2 and/or 4 degree bump without much hassle just to see.  The 2V engine here idles with 16 initial, using a 5 degree start retard in the ignition box.

If you decide on an Ed carb, as I indicated my experience has been that they are pretty much hassle free.  It should run well or be very close out of the box.  A tuning kit is about $40 and comes with a very good book - you can also get the book off Edelbrock's web site.  The Ed Carb Owners Manual is a PDF file on this page: Edelbrock Carb page

If you were really going to hotrod it or tinker with it more, I'd point you at a 600DP Holley or maybe a 650DP.  If you don't have a hankering to tinker (as you indicated), then you should review the Ed carb manual and see if you might like one.

The one issue I've had with aluminum carbs - and it really applies to any carb - is heat soak.  If you keep the exhaust crossovers open, run a spacer with a thin heat shield under it because an aluminum intake conducts heat real well and can cook up a carb in the summer easy.  I've had more problems running aftermaket carbs on stock cast iron intakes than aluminum, but you should keep an eye on heat anyway.  Underhood temps on a Texas 100F summer day with a stock engine and cast iron intake might be enough to melt a beer can, so that's my reference point.  Both hot rods here run Moroso 1" spacers and have no problems at the track, even when staring line temps approach 140F.  

Hello,I just joined the forum.  I found this site looking for info on hopping up a 351C.  I just got a 70 Ranchero project from my dad.  Falcon67, your info is great.  I hope to correspond with you in the future.I couldn't resist joining in... Shipfitter, the Edelbrock carb sounds like what you need.  My son has a '75 elky.  I bought the Eddy Performer manifold and carb off a friend at work, at a great price.  My son was 16 at the time.  We bolted it on and he has been running for about 5 years now, away from home the last 2 (at college).  There were no problems until his belated girlfriend poured a 2 ltr of Mountain Dew in his gas tank.............  arggggWe flushed the tank, and I rebuild the carb.  It is so simple.  I drove up to his college and knocked it out on a Sunday morning (last month actually).  He is back on the road, and out of my wallet... for the time being.  I hope he stays clear of her.  You don't mess with a man's horse.Bottom line - the Edelbrock 600CMF is a very, very simple machine, AND it works for the everyday driver.  I have pictures of it's guts if you're interested.Falcon67, I plan to go with the eddy combo on the 351C.  I have a slew of carbs from my dad, however the simplicity of the eddy makes me lean that way.  By the way, thanks for the great advice on blocking off the heat risers...  We didn't do that on my son's 350, that explains alot.  We live in Alabama.Later,Jess  

Hey all,

Thanks for all the info. There is alot of information here for me to digest and I have so many projects!

Outside temps are not much of a factor. I live in mid coast Maine. It is still winter here and probably won't warm up significantly until June 1st. It snowed yesterday, again! Global warming? Even in the height of summer, it seldom gets much above 80. If it does, it is only for a few days.

I don't have a garage, so I am pretty much limited to working in my driveway. Not only that but everything is still in storage, where I keep my better cars for the winter.

I am leaning towards a Holley Street Avenger (0-80670) with electric choke and it comes with the Ford kick down. But I am also torn by the Edelbrock THUNDER AVS CARB #1806 650CFM ELECTRIC CHOKE. Still mulling it over.

I have to finish my 72 StingRay and get it sold in the next couple of months. Then I have to haul my 68 Cougar (Dan Gurney Special) up here and find out if it is worth saving or parting. Complete car right down to the hub caps. $700 is what I paid for it. I probably will end up parting it out.

Thanks and keep that tech data coming in. It is very much appreciated!!!

Steve  

I hear good things about the Avengers, but my experience with Holleys and electric chokes has been - well, the Ed was waaay better.  The worst part of an Ed carb is the little clips on some of the levers that make you say bad words when you drop one.

I'd get some info about that Cougar from the folks over on fordfe.com before you part the car out.  Lots of Cougar folks over there.  

In regards to the Cougar: I currently have a 70. Last year I sold an 81,000 mile '67 XR-7 and a abused '68 XR-7 as well as parted out my first Cougar a plain 1968.

A '67 Dan Gurney Special (DGS) is a much more collectible item than a '68, which basically amounts to an "appearance package", which is to say, there really is nothing special about them. As much as I hate to dismantle some of these cars, the reality is, that is where the money is to be made. Lots of Cougar parts are not reproduced, unlike the Mustang, and there is a market for these parts. I have sold Cougar parts from Australia to Finland, believe it or not!

I will check out that site as I am always interested in learning new things.

Thanks,

Steve  

Mike be able to market some of the parts there.  

Whew. I sold my '72 Corvette Stingray yesterday. It went quick.....I didn't even have to do a thing to it!  

Edelbrock has a new Air Gap 351C manifold that fits 2v heads and their website catalog has carb recommendations that claim to make real street HP improvements.  

Well, I finally quit waffling on the subject of carburetors and made my decision:

Holley 0-80457S performance 600 CFM four barrel carburetor with electric choke.

Just ordered it online and should see it in the coming week or so. I will let you guys know how it all comes together!

Thanks,

Steve