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not enough power!
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ppguzy
New User
| Posts: 6
| Joined: 06/09
Posted: 06/21/09 06:43 PM
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Ok guy's I'm new at this hole forums stuff so bare with me. I got a 302 bored 30 over. The only thing in this engine that is stock is the crank and pistons. i got a holley 600cfm, edelbrocks timing chain part #7820,Edelbrock Torker-Plus Cam and Lifter Kits, and edelbrocks air gap intake. I also have their E-street cylinder heads with summits roller rocker arms. with all this i dyno'd in only 220 hp and 245 of torque at the wheels. I was expecting way more!! Did i do something wrong?
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Posted: 06/21/09 10:31 PM
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Well assuming about a 20% drivetrain loss that means your making about 262 hp at the flywheel. Thats not bad,,,but. The Edelbrock torker plus is a fairly mild cam, not on the wild side at all. You dont say what valve size you have but it sounds a little low to me. I guess I would expect a bit more. You might experiment with a little more carburetion. What was your compression ratio, cause it sounds like you left it pretty low. Lots of piston brands deck a little lower then stock so to retain your CR you need to have it decked and bring it back up to 9.5 to 1 at least and of course it depends on the chamber you chose. My guess would be your running to low a CR but its just a guess with nominal info.
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ppguzy
New User
| Posts: 6
| Joined: 06/09
Posted: 06/22/09 12:28 AM
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Combustion Chamber Volume 60cc. intake Valve Diameter 1.900 in., and Exhaust Valve Diameter 1.600 in. according to the what the company specs were for my edelbrock E-street heads. What type of cam would you suggest and carb as well? I'm definetly gonna check the CR. I noticed as well the the block was stamped made in Mexico. I thought I heard something about them? thanks for the help and advice.
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Falcon67
Enthusiast
| Posts: 433
| Joined: 12/06
Posted: 06/22/09 07:14 AM
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If you are talking the EDL-5022 kit, that's a decent 302 cam but I would not expect that combo to make much more than 260~270 at the flywheel. With normal clerances, I'd think your compression is around 9.3:1, but that is guessing at deck clearance. With those heads (any heads really) the pistons need to be be at zero deck to get the full advantage of the head configuration.
Wheel dynos are good for tuning - not much good for bench racing the numbers. The number means little and on a different day on a different dyno you'll get another set of numbers. So if you are tuning the car, then leave it on the dyno that day and work for better numbers - THAT DAY.
Mexico cast blocks may have a bit more meat in them - no real evidence - and may have slightly different main caps. Not enough difference to make it something special. As long as the internals stay in the block, it's good.
1967 Falcon 4 door 351C-4V 1970 Mustang 351C-2V http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod Owner built, owner abused.
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Posted: 06/22/09 02:12 PM
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I agree with Falcon. Its kind of late now however to deck your engine but its something to be aware of the next time. As I said certain brands tend to deck lower and when your looking for power you need to know your compression ratio. What you can do now, is look at your cranking pressure. A good engine will have in the neighborhood of 175-200 psi cranking pressure. GENERALLY speaking your cranking pressure is about 17-20 times your Compression ratio. Now, a lot of factors influence it(cam timing) but its a general check to look at your engine. If your across the line lower then this or on the low end you might want to 1) use a different (thinner) head gasket 2) Mill your heads off a little. Check with Edelbrock to find out what is safe and advisable and try to shoot for a no more then 10:1 on the street(yeah I know there are motors running more).
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ppguzy
New User
| Posts: 6
| Joined: 06/09
Posted: 06/23/09 09:44 AM
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I'm gonna check the compression ratio soon.But if it's low what could it really be. I was thinking if it is low, to just take the engine out and update the pistons. Or would it not be worth it? what kind of pistons should i get? stroker or stock? or is there something i can do myself really? im deffinetly gonna change the cam!! what do u guys recommend?
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Posted: 06/23/09 05:07 PM
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Well if it was me I would go with a roller cam and take advantage of the lift possibilities of those heads. Something closer to the .550 max. In addition a roller cam will have a greater area under the curve so the valves lift faster and stay there longer. Mustangs and Fast Fords just recomended a cam to a guy building an engine close to yours, the Lunati 51025. You will see the duration is close to what you have but the lift is greater and its a roller cam(two cams with the same specs-the roller will outperform the flat tappet). I dont think I would do anything more to the shortblock unless you want to start over, but I would look at milling the head down to about 55-57cc and bring up the CR(be sure to include valve reliefs/gaskets in the math for CR). Those two things will breathe some life into that small block I think. With an early block(you didnt say) you may have to go to a small base circle roller cam, but they are available. You may also need to check valve clearances especially if you mill the head and use that hi lift cam. When you get it back together I would go with a 650 holley at min, the more you cam the more the engine will like a little more carb. Probably some other ideas out there too, so listen to what other guys in your situation have done
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ppguzy
New User
| Posts: 6
| Joined: 06/09
Posted: 06/24/09 11:52 AM
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Alright guys, these are the results of my compression test. cyl 1-110psi, cyl 2-125psi, cyl 3-115psi, cyl 4-118psi, cyl 5-115psi, cyl 6-130psi, cyl 7-120psi, cyl 8-111psi. Would changing my cam increase these numbers?
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Posted: 06/24/09 01:51 PM
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Well, assuming you did it right those are dismal numbers for a performance engine. I have seen factory motors with 100K miles put up better numbers. When exactly did you rebuild this engine and what pistons and rings did you use. Very likely the reason your not getting the performance you expect. It suggests your CR is quite low. A cam with longer duration will only bleed off more, in your case your wayyyyyy too low to talk about a simple cam change to affect the problem. You have to find out why its so low and fix it.
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ppguzy
New User
| Posts: 6
| Joined: 06/09
Posted: 06/27/09 02:53 PM
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I had the engine rebuild about.....6yrs ago but it's only got about....6 or 7k miles on it. It's been in the garage for the past 4 years. Should i just get a newer 302 and make it into a stroker? or keep this engine block and have it machined and checked?
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Posted: 06/27/09 06:12 PM
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Gee PPguzy its up to you, might get off cheaper with the current one. But if you have the money and you want more power I would go with a newer block. I plan to use a 93 302 block, because they have the one piece main seal and accept the roller cam. You can decide what front end you want on them(water pump and cover) depending on what your using for alternator/power steering. You can pick up a shortblock that will work with those heads fairly cheap from numerous sources. Use the tin from your old engine and drop her in, in a day or so. When you ask for machine work is pretty expensive. I think you can do just as well with a shortblock made to your specs. Maybe even sell the old shortblock to someone looking for a engine that doesnt care about the low compression.
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