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302HO to replace 302 none HO?

 
markes12344
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Posts: 6
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 04/26/12 07:04 PM

Not a mustang but going to be a fast ford.

I blew a piston out of my '92 F-150 lariat 4x4,
engine specs
- 302 v8 gas
- Fuel Injected
- 280k

I want to put a 87-95 mustang 302 High Output motor into my truck original transmission, as far as I can tell I should not have a problem aside from new firing order and possible air intake.

Will it mount to the tranny and frame the same as reg motor, or whats the difference in that aspect?

What things will I have to consider/change for this beast of a motor to fit into this pickup?  

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waynep71222
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Posts: 166
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 04/26/12 10:28 PM

edit... the 1992 F150 5.0L is not a sequential fuel injection system according to the wiring diagram


as the injectors fire in the firing order..  SFI.. sequential fuel injection..    do you have a wiring diagram for the fuel injection???  if the injectors are wired on YOUR truck individually.. its SFI.. sequential fuel injection..  if your truck is wired with 4 injectors hooked to the ECM on the same wire and the other four on a second wire..

 its EFI and all you have to do it reset the firing order at the cap..  

the 1992 injectors are fired 4 at a time.. according to this wiring diagram.

0900C15280072a3b  

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waynep71222
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Posts: 166
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 04/27/12 07:18 AM

don't forget.... all the injection parts from your old motor can be used for swapping fuel injection onto many other cars...  so its sellable..  harness.. injectors.. manifold.. throttle body ... the whole thing..   save the distributer also..

the HO motor may have orange injectors...    they flow more than a comparable 5.0 injector.. the system when running in closed loop will usually compensate for this.    usually it runs really good with the larger injectors.. i don't know how they compare to the 92 injectors..

so hang on to the fuel injection stuff till you have driven the truck a few weeks..

the heads might not be damaged also..  

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waynep71222
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Posts: 166
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 04/27/12 07:26 AM

just for kicks..

here is the engine diagram for the 88 mustang 5.0...  it does not say if its a HO or not...

0900C1528004e2b2

hope this helps...  

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waynep71222
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Posts: 166
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Posted: 04/27/12 07:29 AM

in thinking.. you may want to use your 1992 fuel injection wiring harness..  

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markes12344
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Posts: 6
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 04/27/12 02:45 PM

i need to make it to the shop, so by tomorrow late after noon i will have the wiring figured if its individual or 4/4.
My injectors are orange though, I know my dad did do a bunch of work to this truck before he passed away, so he might of changed them already to the bigger orange brand that you speak of, no way in knowing though.
As for the wiring scmatics thanx for them, I will get studying them I'm sure they will come in use.

You do state, the heads may not be damaged also. Are you stating in reference to my motor's head with the blown piston? If so they are not damaged, just some carbon and the blown piston only left a nick 1/32 deep 1/32-1/16 around roughly on the big valve, the rest of the head is fine.

also just as added information the motor I am getting only comes as a long block assembly, no wiring harness, manifold (intake nor exhaust), water pump, oil pan, valve covers. basically just like any RAMAN to OE spec motor.  

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waynep71222
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Posts: 166
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Posted: 04/27/12 06:21 PM

that will make it a lot easier .. using everything off the original motor..

please.. be sure that they pay close attention to the multiple ground connections ..


as for the old heads.. i was thinking of resale or keep value for swapping on another project  verses not even taking a look and tossing them out.

you might want to go as far as tossing on an new oil pump...  and verifying the pick up screen is really clean..    ford used aluminum housing pumps in some years..  


i am taking that the HO motor is a roller cam motor..   if the cam in the 92 motor is NOT torn up.. it can possibly swapped.. as you don't have to change roller lifters when swapping cams..  that would end all the issues..  

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markes12344
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Posts: 6
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 05/05/12 06:29 PM

@waynep

hey thanx for the tip, but what exactly am i accomplishing by swapping cams?
Additional news;
-New roller cam, new roller lifters
-New oil pump
-New timming chain set
-New timming chain cover (frig cost more than the water pump)
-New water pump
-New crank and pistons
-Bored and surfaced block within OE specs
-New engine is truly a REMAN HO 5.0lr 302 V8
-Old engine has what i call "Gravity wore cylinders" in that after 280k km my cylinder walls are slightly egged shapped downwards as gravity would do so, putting all the pistons weight on bottom of cylinder wall.


Polish honed out broken pistons, cylinder, wall. Turning it some day into a dunbuggy or go cart engine, as the only thing to save this block, besides throwing 2500.00 into it to; Rebore, re piston, re crank, new piston arms, new bearings ext., will be to get a stock piston and shove it down the freshly honed cylinder I think it would work tits as a motor for dunbuggy of some kind.

as for this HO motor all I  need for it off of my motor is the oil pan, and manifolds both intake and exhaust.

Once again I ask @waynep71222 what dose changing this new cam out for my old engines cam to go in, do performance wise/ over all workings of the engine?  

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waynep71222
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Posts: 166
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 05/05/12 06:53 PM

sometimes i am wrong... this looks like one of them.. sorry...


i probably would if i were ordering a motor.. and the engine was fuel injected..  want the proper cam with the firing order installed from the rebuilder...

there is a difference in the firing order..

since you are using the later wiring harness and injectors.. the POINT is moot..

i just did not have enough info it seems..

the HO motors use sequential fuel injection.. where the injectors fire ONE at a time.. in relation to the firing order... this lets the injectors fire directly into an OPEN valve...

with the later wiring harness..    the injectors are BATCH FIRED the left 4 then the right 4..

so more than likely the engine will NOT be effected...   i still don't know  what cam you are installing..  both firing orders are probably available..

as for what i wanted.. i don't know..

i will stop this now before i get both feet wedged into my mouth so deep that i choke..  

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waynep71222
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Posts: 166
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 05/05/12 06:58 PM

Icon Quotemarkes12344:
Not a mustang but going to be a fast ford.

I blew a piston out of my '92 F-150 lariat 4x4,
engine specs
- 302 v8 gas
- Fuel Injected
- 280k

I want to put a 87-95 mustang 302 High Output motor into my truck original transmission, as far as I can tell I should not have a problem aside from new firing order and possible air intake.

Will it mount to the tranny and frame the same as reg motor, or whats the difference in that aspect?

What things will I have to consider/change for this beast of a motor to fit into this pickup?


hmm... does not say anything about a reman motor..  just a 5.0HO into a NO ho application..



i wonder.. did they install standard cast pistons.. or forged pistons like the HO came with..

i have worked in engine rebuilding shops...  unless you ask and demand forged pistons.. its going to get cast pistons.. or hypereutetic .. which is actually a cast piston also..  

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markes12344
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Posts: 6
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 05/26/12 09:56 PM

So... it has been awhile.
Anywho got the new long block fully assembled and into my truck it runs amazingly better than my recent engine ever has since I have owned the truck from 250,000 km but none the less before the previous owner, my dad owned it. So I was not going to trash the truck, when the engine crapped out. The fault to the piston melt down, was Lucas Oil additive, one hole bottle during the, 500km before mishap, oil change. I figured some Lucas wouldn't hurt, I was wrong. Oil ran to thick, built up on heads from not draining away down the small holes, leaked into air box and intake manifold (driver cap-box, passenger cap-intake)  resulting in little to no oil in pan for piston lubrication as well as pre ignition in the hot motors combustion chamber.

Long to short, motor died from too much Lucas Oil Additive, user error, Fords still built Tough.


@waynep71222 I don't mean to call you wrong I was just curious as to why one would change a bran new Hydro Roller Lifter cam out, to put an old hydro roller cam in. As I read that would have changed the firing order back to my original 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 as it appears the cranks are the same.
Also you say something I fear about my pistons now. I'm going to have to get asking, but I did buy it from http://www.enginesdirect.net/ via ebay they seem like a big rebuilding company lets just hope they don't cheap out much. Would you happen to know some background on this company as you do say you worked at a engine rebuild company.


Now to QUESTION
One problem I wonder is, with the old firing order being at 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 and injectors going off as 1-5-4-8 and 2-6-3-7
and the HO firing at 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 should I re-wire the harness to 1-3-7-8 and 2-6-5-4? would this not in fact bring me back to the same smarts that Ford designed for the original motor and 2 wire injector system, or just be redundant and not accomplish much to nothing?

Second question is, how easy is it to throw a mustang wiring harness at my truck be? in order to get the individual wiring for the injectors.
What parts of the harness would I all need?
Were do the injectors know what one to open depending on the motor point in rotation?
I'm going to assume they know this because of the little cap and magnetic wire device under my distributor caps arm, seems logical. I'm actually kinda of new to this motor business in terms of this much detail, yet I do learn and understand easily/fast, with that being said tho.
If that is the case I do hope I would only have to change the Distributor and harness up to the big engine control module plug, but I can't seem to decipher that out from the wiring diagrams for both mustang and truck, yet I never would of thought of a circuitry board being on my truck.  

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waynep71222
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Posts: 166
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 05/26/12 10:28 PM

in the beginning... you did not say it was a whole new/reman long block..

i figured it was an engine swap. as a complete engine would have the injector wiring harness..

since your injector fire with the trucks computer ... 4 at a time.. there is NO need to do anything...

and changing to a SFI computer and harness is going to be WAY too much work to pick up just a few horsepower..

i feel bad that i brought up the issue..  i just did not have all the facts..

which pistons did they use???? forged or cast..???? cast ford small block pistons can cost under 10 bucks each for some brands at the production engine rebuilder pricing schedule..  forged pistons still cost 30 to 50 bucks each at the PER pricing..  retail is much higher..

again...  JUST leave it as is. as for the firing order.. or the fuel injection spray order..

if you have both wiring diagrams printed out..   much easier to read them.. they are also hidden by the size of the window .. so they are not all visible..

in your truck.. if you follow the wiring diagram..  you will see that 8 injectors are separated into 2 banks...   4 injectors hooked to one wire.. the other 4 injectors hooked to the other wire.. with power being supplied to all... the ECM pulls the injectors to ground in tiny pulses to make them spray..  it supplies longer pulses to spray more fuel as the engine speed and needs increase and this is calculated by the computer with inputs from various sensors..

if you look at the 5.0 mustang wiring diagram..

the injectors are all supplied power on one side..   but Each injector has an individual wire to the ECM.. this allows the ECM to turn on ONE injector at a time..

i think its going to take a substantial amount of funds and SKILS to convert your truck to Sequential fuel injection..  this is not for the average mechanic..  so.. leave it alone..  

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markes12344
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Posts: 6
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 05/27/12 08:43 AM

well thank you for the quick reply, seems like my truck dose have a computer... never would of thought. you have been a great help. thanx a lot.  

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