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better MPG mods?

 
littleNGNthatcould
New User
Posts: 23
Joined: 08/12
Posted: 08/14/12 12:14 AM

now i know alot of you are going to either yell at me for not using the "search" engine, or tell me im dumb for wanting better mpg from a 5.0 but truth is, i have been trying countless keywords on the "search" with no luck, and the car was my grandfathers, i wont part with it, so im trying to find ways of making it more practical. the car in question, very stock, 1984 5.0 5spd, hatchback LX. well not so stock anymore, as i have in the passed 3 weeks, added the following
electric fans
underdrive pulleys
K&N air filter
rebuilt carb
perfect tire pressure & front end alignment (was an issue)
GTS lens covers
before these mods, i would ave. 14-16mpg but if i behaved i would achieve 19mpg on 93 octane, after the mods, i've seen a best of 23.5mpg
now i have been wondering for a while now if an MSD set-up would help in my quest for better mpg (dizzy/coil/wires/ignition box) i know headers would help, but i absolutely love how quiet this car is, since removing the 5.0 emblems, people swear its a 4/6cyl. so i don't really want to push for a more efficient exhaust at the moment. but my last list of mods would be putting my pony on a diet.
any positive advice would be appreciated, and tips on if im headed in the right direction.  

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waynep71222
User
Posts: 166
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 08/14/12 06:19 PM

just curious..

which carb are you running...  a 4180 model motorcraft version of the holley.. with base plate idle mixture screws..

a variable venturi???   i actually love them.. but they are very tempermental...

something like the road demon jr with the tiny primaries and the 700 sized secondaries but still being a square bore carb...

or actually a 390 CFM carb..    that would be the best for fuel economy..

what.. yes.. tiny venturis get the air flow off the idle transition circuits and on to the main circuits faster..  even if you loose some on the top end..   you will still have your other carbs that are already set and ready to bold right on if you want to have fun for the weekend..

do you have any threaded ports for an oxygen sensor.. so you can monitor the air fuel ratio with at least a 40 buck air fuel ratio gauge..  some that use a wide band are well over 200 bucks.. but most parts stores have them as a gauge for about 40 bucks.. you could even mount them and plug it into the cigar lighter socket and just a quick single wire hook up to the oxygen sensor..

you will also want a manifold vacuum gauge.  these start just over 20 bucks



a while back.. i put up a post over at circle track.. talking about the flames out the exhaust during sprint cup races.. where the driver took his foot completely off the throttle to slow the car into the corner.. but this caused extreme high manifold vacuum readings and pulled a massive amount of fuel from the idle feed ports and the idle transition slots..  i even talked to a company who makes metering blocks  about creating one that is spring loaded so at high intake vacuum situations it cuts off the idle feeds circuit...  about 2 races from the end.. when sprint cup was still running carbs..   the announcers noticed that one of the cars was not displaying flames from the tail pipe during cornering..  that driver and i have forgotten who it was.. outlasted everybody else to win the race by going 5 or 7 laps farther than anybody else without pitting..   i don't know what he did.. but i was jumping up and down..

now... you have a vacuum advance duraspark distributer that is curved properly for your motor..

you can use that distributer to trigger an MSD box..  that way you would retain the factory curve that is just right for your motor..    you will want to invest in a 30 buck adjustable advance timing light... and a decent digital hand held tachometer .. or auto motive multimeter with a tach clamp.. so you can see at what point the mechanical advance starts and at what point it stops...  this gives you an idea of just what its baseline setting is..

if you want to start playing with advance curves.. you will want to screw a slightly later 5.0 knock sensor into the side of the block.. and pick up one of the little LED bargraph displays.. so you know if its knocking.. that way you can back off the advance curve slightly..  

whats neat..  if you look at the breaker plate on a duraspark.. you can see the tabs that hold the fixed end of the springs...  using a remote starter switch.   you can actually bump the engine around and use a thin screwdriver to bend the fixed tab slightly.. either tightening the spring to reduce advance curve. or loosen the spring to get more in earlier.

one thing.. please be sure that you have separated the last two spark plug wires on the drivers side..  

Fordsparkplugiwirerouting

Fordsparkplugwiringroutingcap  

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littleNGNthatcould
New User
Posts: 23
Joined: 08/12
Posted: 09/04/12 12:55 AM

well its been a few weeks, just been keeping tabs on the mpg. waynep, about the carb, its the factory 4v holley carb that came with the car, i don't want to switch to a 2b carb simply because i don't want to sacrifice the power. but i have been reading up on a few ideas i would like direct input, rather then surfing on other peoples threads. but here's the question
has anyone tracked any real economy benefit from aluminum drive shafts & flywheels? also i have been considering using a later fox 5.0 for the roller cam&lifters, even doing a roller rocker set-up simply for the whole less heat/friction non-sense, and lastly would lighter pistons help? i've been reading through and through, i get, it reduces the rotating mass. but would this affect economy positively?
a few other ideas for the goal:
weld racing draglites (simply because they're lighter)
tubular k-member & A-arms
fiberglass hood
lighter steering shaft/rack and pinion via Flaming river
aluminum heads simply because of weight reduction

P.s. still getting between 23-24mpg from the last 3 tanks of gas.  

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littleNGNthatcould
New User
Posts: 23
Joined: 08/12
Posted: 09/16/12 10:45 PM

alright, so i learned the aluminum flywheel isn't for my application. and i managed to get a fiberglass hood, flaming rivers steering shaft, and a set of weld wheels off craigslist for a good steal of a price. just need new tires. but i think im going to wait until i have the rest of the stuff off my list, and try doing a "weekend project" swap out. looking for that night-n-day difference you know? also i still hear alot of does/doesn't work with the MSD stuff. i think ill hold off on that for awhile  

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waynep71222
User
Posts: 166
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 09/17/12 07:41 AM

P.s. still getting between 23-24mpg from the last 3 tanks of gas.  


don't mess with anything...  if you are pulling down those numbers...


with a holley 4 barrel.. on top of a 302...  thats as much as you can get without melting the pistons..

don't change the cam.. unless you really want to..   you have a decent set up..

let me do some comparos..
84 chevy caprice.. 305 with a full feed back carb and electronic timing control. 23 mpg
84 chevy el camino V6 with full feed back carb and electronic timing control.   26 mpg

a perfectly functioning EFI 302 with all the sensors hooked up from around 1987 can knock down the 29 MPG numbers if you keep your foot out of it..

but you have a NON feedback holley carb.. that is properly calibrated to that motors running conditions.. and a vacuum advance distributer thats matched to the needs of that motor..

weight reduction improvements..

rolling resistance improvements..  what?  think of the prius.  put the wrong tires on it.. even though they are spec for that car.. you can loose 3 to 5 mpg..

if you can look through the tire sizes for your car.. there may be a few .. that have cold pressure ratings of 44 psi...  yep.. they ride like bricks.. feel every bump in the road..   may have less rolling resistance than 35PSI tires..

before you select your new tires...   you will want to do a careful roll out test... where you put a mark at 6 o clock on the tire and on the pavement.. roll the car forward so the tire turns exactly one turn and the mark is at 6 o clock again.. mark the pavement..  measure between the marks..

take that number in inches and calculate out how many in a mile.. 5280x12=528012" divided by your measurement. equals how many times per mile your tire goes around..

you can roll the car forward 10 turns of the tire if you have a long long tape  but once is accurate ..   i looked at the factory tire size.. 205 70 14 that came on some mustangs.. when i looked at the tire turns per mile.. i think that size was around 721 per mile.. but i also saw other sizes that could fit that car.. on the tire rack site.. got from 690 to 895 turns per mile..

choose your tire size carefully..  if you go too low a turns per mile.. you will lug the engine.. causing you to use more throttle..   if you go to many turns per mile.. you will just be wasting gas spinning the engine needlessly..

i don't know what size you have on your car currently.. but i bet you do..  check the tirerack site.. click the specs tab...  

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littleNGNthatcould
New User
Posts: 23
Joined: 08/12
Posted: 09/18/12 01:22 PM

29 MPG from an 87!?!?! good lord. my wife had a 92 LX and we ave. 23 mpg but that car had a mess of mods to it also, including 3.73 gears so i was happy at that time (4 yrs ago) when my 84 was ave. 14-16mpg. but 29, thats incredible. currently im using a set of turbine wheels from the GT which they are 15" wheels vs. the original TRX wheels. did this simply because i needed tires (dry rot) and some guy was selling the turbines on craigslist for $60 tires looked great then, and still do today. but i think the car felt slower when i switched tires, but it could be in my head im sure. the welds, i believe are also 15" but 8" and 6" wide. i have been hearing a strange sound coming from the front end when i turn slightly to the right. seems my rack&pinion is do for a swap. so i think im going to have to buy a new one, im thinking flaming river set-up. as much as i like the idea of eliminating the P.S. pump from my acc. for small added benefits, i don't want to lose the luxury of power assist steering.  

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waynep71222
User
Posts: 166
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 09/18/12 05:37 PM

29... is not out of this world..

invest in an EEC4 code reader or scan tool...  

the eec4 code readers are around 30 bucks at most parts stores..

run the KOEO and KOER tests and keep fixing failures till you get a PASS 11..   drive it for a 4 or 5 mile test run...   verify you get a pass 11 on the KOEO and KOER tests again..   that is the ONLY time the fuel injection system will operate at max performance and max fuel economy...

there are all kinds of OBD1 scan tools for sale now a days..

OTC monitor 4000E and various versions of that one with the proper cartridges and cables..
OTC genesys versions.. again with the proper cables..
OTC 2000 versions are only good up to 1989 if you have the proper cartridge and cables
snap on MT2500 scan tools.. with the proper cables and cartridges..
autoXray scan tools.. with the proper cables
actron CP9110 scan tool with the proper cartridge and cable..

there are a few more.. they are rare online..

all you can really get on fords is codes... so the 30 buck code reader is really all you need..  

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pepsi1
User
Posts: 94
Joined: 10/11
Posted: 09/18/12 11:05 PM

Welcome aboard:

Anyone that tells you, that your stupid or dumb whatever they want to say. The heck with them.

The only thing I didn't see is the trans you have. You've done all the good things, so the only other thing is an Overdirve unit. Nice to see you respect your grandpa...

I have a 2006 Chevy Impala with a 3.9 as my daily driver. I average.23.9MPG all around. If I just do highway driving I can get 30MPG. So I don't know how your going to get more...Thats why I leave my Impala SS in the garage. I get to play with it too much. The 3.9 is a little rocket ship. It's hard to drive cars like that without getting a little crazy....

Bob  

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littleNGNthatcould
New User
Posts: 23
Joined: 08/12
Posted: 09/19/12 08:32 PM

pepsi1, thank you for the kind words, i have been thinking about doing something with the stock tranny, not sure to have it re-geared or invest in a something new with a better OD 5th or even a 6th gear. being i don't consider this a "street/strip" kind of car, more like a DD sort of thing. i am currently working on a rat rodded 1970 fastback with a 351 clevor motor. that will be my "fun" car but still haven't found a 5spd tranny to replace the boring FMX tranny in it, (thats for another story) but how cool it would be to have this car set-up for 25-30mpg, quiet as a 4cyl. and suddenly need to merge into another lane and you watch this 84 mustang down shift and whip ahead. these cars came i think rated at 175crank HP? and 3100lbs? would be nice to pick drop 200lbs and pick-up 50hp all while increasing the economical efficiency.
  speaking of which, would gt40p heads help with this? or guzzle more gas? i assume it would guzzle but a buddy of mine says it would help in my case. shine some light on me people. i ask only because he is "giving" them to me for nothing. i don't want to waste my time with it if its only going to step backwards in my goal.  

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waynep71222
User
Posts: 166
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 09/20/12 08:29 AM

as for what will help MPG.. its NOT an easy answer.... if it was.. all the cars would be getting 40MPG+

changes in air flow (heads) require changes in jetting usually..  monitor your AF ratio so you what is needed..

as for your 70... you have a few options in transmissions...  since the back of the cleveland has a small block ford 6 bolt transmission mounting pattern.  there are a lot of interesting transmissions that can be built to withstand the C output...

you have one transmission called the AOD...   that is a fully hydraulic shift transmission.. only electronics i think are for the Torque converter clutch...  available for the small block bolt pattern..   neat thing..  i am almost sure that a transmission specialist can swap the better gear ratios from a 4R70W into that AOD.. with improvements to get the owner really happy..

there are around 40 magazines.. build ups on the AOD are spread out in several...

this is only an idea..  if you wanted an overdrive automatic.. instead of the FMX version..  the AOD is slightly larger and i don't know how well it will fit..  

its just an idea..  

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littleNGNthatcould
New User
Posts: 23
Joined: 08/12
Posted: 09/21/12 01:11 PM

waynep, thanks for the info, im not familiar with the cleavand engine, but im using a windsor block w/351C heads, a special intake, and alot of machine work to make it all work together, in my 1970. its a 69 block, i was simply looking to grab a T5 from a fox and go that route until i could afford better, i hate the idea of a pony/muscle car being automatic. i only expect maybe 12-15mpg with that car.
but back to the fox. i guess ill stay away from the head swap for the time being until i do more homework on what helps my app.  

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littleNGNthatcould
New User
Posts: 23
Joined: 08/12
Posted: 10/27/12 08:59 PM

well guys, weather is getting colder, its been between high 50s to low 70s F. and on a 100mile highway run at 65mph constant, and 93 octane. im getting 26.3mpg. its about time for the oil change and spark plug replacement. i usually do motorcraft for obvious reasons. but before i install the usual. is there any other brands you guys recommend? i hear about E3 but i find it hard to believe they can do what they claim. also with oil theres alot of claims with higher brands. im also getting ready to service the rear, its been about 4 years since i last replaced the lube, figured lucas will be the choice for that one. any tips and advice appreciated.  

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waynep71222
User
Posts: 166
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 10/27/12 10:07 PM

E3.. split fire... bosch+4 spark plugs... pulse star...    rapid fire..

there are motorcraft and also autolite double platinum spark plugs..  are probably the best choice for what you have...

i am taking that you have a 4180 motorcraft/holley carb...

i had mine apart last week... took some photos..

seems there are 4 idle air bleeds.. 2 on the outside of the air horn.. 2 on the inside of the air horn.. this is just on the primary side..  if any of these six air bleeds are clogged.. you will have fuel economy issues..

there are also 2 high speed air bleeds near the accelerator pump nozzle..

4180 Motorcraft Holley Idle Air Bleeds Zps7c98df5f  

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littleNGNthatcould
New User
Posts: 23
Joined: 08/12
Posted: 10/29/12 01:48 AM

awesome pics. i can't say "yes i def. KNOW that those holes are clean and cleared." but when i took mine apart for rebuild i do recall using a pipe cleaner in alot of little holes. and letting alot of the parts soak in the carb cleaner bucket. i noticed a great deal of improvement afterwards. especially with cold starts, idle, and simply cruising around at low speeds. another thing i would like to ask, with it getting colder out im really considering those metal tubes that fit between the exhaust manifold heat shield and the snorkel of the air cleaner. not sure what its called, but im told this helps with warm ups on cold mornings? also if any leads as to where i can find them?  

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waynep71222
User
Posts: 166
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 10/29/12 06:30 AM

you might want to verify the vacuum motors that open the trap door actually work properly..
do you have the COOL dual inlet air cleaner???

i seem to recall that you may not need a whole 18 inches .. if you need only 9 inches.. you can get by with just one..  if you have a dual snorkel air cleaner..


Dorman/Pre-Heater Hose
Part Number: 96049
Color / Finish: Black
Diameter (in): 2
Material: Paper/Aluminum
Overall Length (in): 18
Application: With manual transmission
Price:$13.99



Dorman/Pre-Heater Hose
Part Number: 96024
Color / Finish: Aluminum
Diameter (in): 2
Material: Aluminum
Overall Length (in): 18
Application: With automatic transmission
Notes: With 2" Pre-heater Duct
Price: $6.99


just incase you don't have the vacuum hoses hooked up..... look at the UPPER LEFT CORNER of this diagram....

the vacuum for the air cleaner motors starts at a manifold vacuum fitting.
goes under the air cleaner housing to the air cleaner bi metallic.. A/CL BI MET..  from there to one of the plastic devices that stick through the side of the air cleaner with the round side inside the air cleaner...  A/CL  CWM   then to the A/CL DV..  the air cleaner motor..



THIS IS A VACUUM DIAGRAM for a CFI FUEL INJECTED 5.0.. but it shows the air cleaner vacuum door in an easy to follow diagram... DO NOT attempt to hook your hoses up other than the air cleaner motor hoses to this diagram..
0900C1528004e00d

there are a BUNCH of different calibrations .. there is a rectangular white sticker on one of your valve covers... with numbers on one end.. in boxes...   if you can identify which of these is your diagram.. i will post it..


Fig. Fig. 133: Calibration 4-21A-R2-8-302 Mustang/Capri 1984
Fig. Fig. 134: Calibration 4-21A-R15-8-302 Mustang/Capri 1984
Fig. Fig. 135: Calibration 4-21A-R17-8-302 Mustang/Capri 1984
Fig. Fig. 136: Calibration 4-21P-R0-8-302 Mustang/Capri 1984 California
Fig. Fig. 137: Calibration 4-21P-R12-8-302 Mustang/Capri 1984 California and Canada
Fig. Fig. 138: Calibration 4-21P-R13-8-302 Mustang/Capri 1984 California and Canada
Fig. Fig. 139: Calibration 4-21P-R14-8-302 Mustang/Capri 1984 California and Canada
Fig. Fig. 140: Calibration 4-22A-R13-8-302 Mustang/Capri 1984-85
Fig. Fig. 141: Calibration 4-22P-R12-8-302 Mustang/Capri 1984-85 California



Click page 2 below left....  

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