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need help..... have no idea where to start

 
mysteriousevil
New User
Posts: 10
Joined: 09/12
Posted: 05/21/13 09:13 PM

im kinda new here to forums so forgive me if im going about this wrong, but here goes.
ok, i have an 87 mustang lx NA fuel injected 2.3L with manual transmission and no mods done to it. i left the car with my mother for a year and came back to it and was having problems from the start. took forever to get to start and after i finally got it to run it would lose power and eventually stall completely out after it warmed up and when it didnt stall i had to constantly keep pumping gas to get it to stay running and it wouldnt rev over 2500 rpm. it would backfire would killed and sometimes when starting, although it took 4 or 5 tries to start. i have changed all fluids in it, i have drained fuel tank and flushed fuel lines and replaced fuel filter. changed spark plugs and wires. i finally had someone tell me to run compression test on it and there was no pressure between cylinders 2 and 3. i bought a head gasket kit from autozone ad replaced all gaskets included and upon disassembly discovered massive carbon build up. i cleaned carbon out of everything using lots of brake cleaner and wire brushes and steel wool. i put everything back together. i messed up on hooking up the spark plug wires the first time and heard a loud pop coming from the engine when trying to fire it the first time and killed it immediately. i hooked up plugs to what i think is right now. but now it is not firing on the #1 cylinder. i think i got the spark plug wires hooked up right. i have absolutely no experience in dealing with distributor which i am guessing to be causing the problem but i have no idea. i cant even get it running right to see if i fixed the causing problem in the first place. it cranks and runs now but it is till not firing on the #1 cylinder. i have not drove it but just killed it after running for 2 mins to keep from damaging anything more. any helps or suggestions would be greatly appreciated for this is my only running car and i have a family that needs transportation. i am very very limited on funds and have to borrow most tools to work on this due to all my tools getting stolen. thank you in advance  

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mysteriousevil
New User
Posts: 10
Joined: 09/12
Posted: 05/21/13 09:48 PM

oh, and 1 more thing. i have an OB 1 diagnostic scanner but i cannot hook it up. the previous owners apparently ripped out the harness to hook it up to. i have the main harness to hook it up to but the harness thats supposed to have 2 connections has been removed so yeah thats probably out of the question b4 anybody says to run a scanner on it  

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waynep712222
User
Posts: 124
Joined: 03/13
Posted: 05/22/13 07:50 AM

a few things...

lets go back with a compression test....
post results..

1....

2..

3...

4...

on the distributer.. set the crank to TDC... and see if you can align the timing pointer on the cam gear..  there is a hole with a removable plug on some years of 2.3 motors..

now.. move the crank counter clockwise and then bring it back clockwise and stop at the timing marks indicated for the base timing...

remember crank turns twice to one of the cam and one of the distributer.. ..

does the distributer rotor point toward the #1 spark plug wire terminal in the cap??

look under the rotor.. or pull the rotor.. there is a 4 lobed device on the shaft below the rotor.. thats the RELUCTOR..  when the reluctor tips line up perfectly with the center bar in the pick up coil winding.. that is where the ignition is going to fire at without the timing control.. base timing.. deadstick timing.. if the crank is at the proper timing mark for base timing. turn the distributor housing to align the tip of the reluctor with the pick up coil..  lock it down.. thats how its done..

since you have the engine running.. the above is just for your knowledge..  you can check the base timing with it using this procedure.


when you replaced the head gasket...  did you remove the rocker arms prior to removing the head.. so the valves were all closed...  and when you had the head off and were carefully scraping the surface.. that you did not set the head valve side down...  that could have bent a valve...   when the rocker arms were reinstalled.. did you have the crank set OFF CENTER.. not at top dead center or bottom dead center...

ps.. i really love people who think that they can fix computer issues by cutting off the diagnostic connectors..  i have a friend with a subaru with the same issue..  just a bunch of wires dangling..
your diagnostic connector is under the hood..   is there any wire left as have a wiring diagram.. you can extend them and even replace the connector..  ford systems usually require the engine to run to set a trouble code after a KOEO and KOER self test..


are the injector connectors all pushed in tight..
is the fuel injector rail pushed in before you tightened the 2 rail mounting bolts... yep.. it can slip back and allow vacuum leaks around the injector seals..

lastly.. how did you clean the surface of the block.. and the surface of the head...

did you examine /read the old head gasket to see where the leak was.. and verify the block and head surface was not damaged??

i am quite familiar with these as you can tell..

here is the 87 2.3 wiring diagram if that helps..

0900C1528004e2ad  

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mysteriousevil
New User
Posts: 10
Joined: 09/12
Posted: 05/22/13 12:34 PM

thank you. ok for the compression tests i do not remember the results, i threw the paper out and i had to rent a compression tester so im not really looking to do that again unless i have to. everything is right with the heads and no bent valves. i cleaned the old gaskets off everything with a putty knife and brake cleaner and polished everything until it was smooth. i was wanting to get advice before i did anything with the distributor because, as i said, i have no knowledge on the workings of them. but as far as the timing... the cam timing and the crankshaft timing are on, someone told me that the third gear on there (not the tensioner) is controlling the distributor timing, is that true. i thought that it was just a pully. if it has to be set, what does it have to be set at? i will look into the distributor sometime tonight or tomorrow because it is supposed to rain tonight so idk. i will post what i see and what i can come up. thank you. and i will try to hunt down the wires for my tester  

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waynep712222
User
Posts: 124
Joined: 03/13
Posted: 05/22/13 03:30 PM

the sprocket on the drivers side of the engine drives the auxiliary shaft that turns the distributer..

since your engine starts and runs for a few seconds or a minute.. i am taking the timing is close...

a few things..  most parts stores have loaner tools.. where you leave a deposit that is the value of the tool.. and when you return the tool within a week or so.. varies between store chains.. get all your money back.. these are kept behind the counter.. not out on display... so final cost might be Zero .. except for how you get there..

harbor freight has a decent set with 3 different hoses... 20 bucks.. and yes i know about not having money to buy anything..
Quick-Connect Compression Tester Pittsburgh Automotive - harbor freight Item # 95187

this is kinda what you will be looking for when you look under the cap and rotor..

0900C1528007bc23  

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waynep712222
User
Posts: 124
Joined: 03/13
Posted: 05/22/13 03:49 PM

266999 150 2

1485AFBE A9E3 167F 692911D461CA401C  

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mysteriousevil
New User
Posts: 10
Joined: 09/12
Posted: 05/23/13 03:55 PM

ok thanx. i set the timing in the distributor. apparently the previous owner set the timing by turning the distributor and the points werent lined up when i hooked everything up the right way. i set everything right in the distributor and now all cylinders are firing. but now i have the problem of still back firing and tries to stall while revving up and it sounds like its sucking A LOT of air while giving gas. the fuel injectors are in snug btw. the only thing left that i can think of is to clean out the injectors because someone said that clogged injectors can cause the problems im having. i soaked them overnight in brake cleaners and wiped them off real good before re-installing them like the guy at autozone said. is there anyway you know of to clean them out inside without having to pay an arm and a leg to have them rebuilt. i checked the price of them at autozone new and they were like 80 bucks a pop and im trying not to spend that much.  

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waynep712222
User
Posts: 124
Joined: 03/13
Posted: 05/24/13 03:29 AM

cleaning the injectors is done with a cloth... wiping the exterior off.. not soaking the entire injector...

cleaning the inside..   is harder.... it requires a fuel injector connector..

GP Sorensen/Fuel Injector Wiring Connector
Part Number: 6414
Notes: 2 female terminals. With centered index slot, without release. Black.
Price: $6

~~~~~~~~~~~~
this one might be easier to release from the injector..
GP Sorensen/Fuel Injector Wiring Connector
Part Number: 800-9213
Notes: 2 female terminals. With centered index slot, with release. Black.
Price: $8

you will need a 9 volt battery connector and a tiny momentary push button..

connector wire... push button.... battery connector.
connector wire-------------battery connector.

now.. with a can of autozone brand brake cleaner.. some short sections of vacuum hose and fuel line... and some hose clamps... you can shove some of the vacuum hose into the larger fuel line and clamp that on the spray straw..  and clamp the other end on the top of the injector...

now you are ready to clean injectors... spray while pulsing the voltage into the injector.. you will notice that the injector sprays better and better and better after about 15 seconds of spraying.. do not hold the switch down.. PULSE IT...- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

you will also want to OHM the injector windings before you bother cleaning them..  if the resistance is not all the same.. you might have issues from the overnight soak damaging the winding insulation..

.....

are the ducts all tightly installed between the air filter and the throttle body??? any air leaks will screw the air fuel ratio up... or does your engine just have a MAP sensor instead of the MAF sensor in the inlet duct by the air cleaner.. is that hose hooked up???

i am taking that you have some kind of digital volt meter..

and i did mention about the grounds.. right.. there was a 86 cougar turbo 2.3 in the shop that nobody could fix .. it sat for months.. till i looked at it...  seems the braided ground strap to the back of the engine was loose.. it was actually sparking when i tightened it up after cleaning it.. the car ran perfect..  

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waynep712222
User
Posts: 124
Joined: 03/13
Posted: 05/24/13 03:39 AM

say.. i seem to recall that somebody cut your diagnostic connector off..



Duralast/EEC-IV Test Plug Connector
Part Number: 429
Price: $23.99  

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mysteriousevil
New User
Posts: 10
Joined: 09/12
Posted: 05/24/13 09:56 AM

thanks. i saw a video on youtube of a guy cleaning his injectors that way, but you cant always believe stuff on youtube so i wanted some advice. yes i have a volt meter btw. and i got the car with the air filter missing, they just had the pipe going to the filter box wit a sock over it, lol. i rigged a filter on it and it worked just fine so i dont think thats really the problem. and i checked the ground wires on the engine. i had a problem with a saturn we did a swap on where i forgot to re-hook a ground so i made sure to get that right. i will try to test and clean my injectors how you said in the next couple of days when i have time and post what happened on here. and i have the big connector for the diagnostic port but not the small one. the website for the scanner said that i could just run a wire from the small port on the tool to the negative terminal on my battery ( because some models didnt have that) but i was iffy because the amps running out a battery and didnt want to fry my scanner  

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waynep712222
User
Posts: 124
Joined: 03/13
Posted: 05/25/13 07:48 AM

i have the big connector for the diagnostic port but not the small one. the website for the scanner said that i could just run a wire from the small port on the tool to the negative terminal on my battery

yep...

http://oldfuelinjection.com/?p=13


you could also.. just stop by a junk yard for a replacement version...  ford, lincoln and mercury cars and trucks from 84 thru 95 had them...

you could also just use a .250 female fully insulated quick connect crimp on terminal...

you could even use a TOGGLE switch of some kind with a wire to ground off the other terminal of the switch to control it.. but if you have a scanner.. just extend it... or replace it with a donor section..  

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waynep712222
User
Posts: 124
Joined: 03/13
Posted: 05/25/13 07:51 AM

Dlc Eeciv Zpse2a607e9



by the way.. were you able to run another compression test????? to verify the engine is working properly ..  

i wonder why so much carbon..??????????

do you have a vacuum gauge... can you hook it to a manifold vacuum port and slowly bring the engine RPMS up.. the vacuum level should not drop..  you could also have a clogged exhaust system..  

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mysteriousevil
New User
Posts: 10
Joined: 09/12
Posted: 05/25/13 08:26 AM

i have not got another compression tester yet but when i put my thumb over the spark plug holes it feels as if i got good compression on all cylinders now and i havent run a vacuum test but that is the first thing i figured it might have been when i first started messing with it and i checked all lines i could find and couldnt hear anything leaking but i suppose the only real way to know would be to test them. i am going to get some brake cleaner today and clean out my injectors while i got them off. i suppose its easier to start with the cheapes ways first lol. and the only way i can think of such carbon buildup is because the previous owners pretty much gave the car no maintanance. the car was pretty sturdy, but the engine looked like crap. i didnt think about pulling the connector for diagnostic off a junk car, good idea. i will post results on here after i clean out my injectors, should be tonight or tomorrow  

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mysteriousevil
New User
Posts: 10
Joined: 09/12
Posted: 06/11/13 12:45 PM

sorry i havent posted in awhile. internet has been out. i found out i have a clogged fuel injector in 1 cylinder so i just ordered one and i will install it when it gets here and post results  

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waynep712222
User
Posts: 124
Joined: 03/13
Posted: 06/12/13 06:50 AM

you might want to rig up a fuel injector test wire...

parts needed.. a fuel injector connector.. junk yard or 8 bucks at parts stores..

a momentary push button switch.. 1 to 4 bucks.. a tiny on is OK..

a 9 volt battery connector..


one will also need a  1/8" female pipe to 1/8" compression tube adaptor..  like is used in oil pressure gauge kits.. they are available individually in some hardware stores..

3223 D

this and a hose barb to 3/8" hose...  some clamps...

i normally use some TINY orings instead of the compression ring..  this allows me to install the compression fitting on a spray nozzle tube.. hook the hose to the end of the fuel injector with clamps to hold the hose in place...   and the push button rig to pulse the fuel injector while i spray either autozone brake cleaner or B12 chem tool carb cleaner spray.. thru the injector as i pulse it..   you would not believe how much garbage comes out...

this does not always work.. but its a lot quicker than sending the injectors out when the customer is awaiting their car later that day for a drivability issue..

please also check the connectors for corrosion on the injector connector terminals.. that will be enough to prevent operation..  

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