MENU Subscribe to a Magazine
  • Sign in
  • Join

Subscribe to Print or Digital! Save up to 83%

Magazine Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords
Magazine Mustang Monthly
Magazine 5.0 Mustang & Super Fords
Magazine Modified Mustangs & Fords
  • Print Subscriptions
  • Digital Subscriptions
  • Gift Subscriptions
  • Subscriber Services
  • Back Issues
  • Personalized Cover
  • Subscribe to a Magazine
Item Posts    Sort Order

Need some ideas please!

 
majorv
New User
Posts: 4
Joined: 06/13
Posted: 06/05/13 06:39 PM

We have an '04 Mach 1 with Aluminator 4.6L engine. Rod bearing went out and we're $6400 poorer after the machining, replacing a rod, and all the bearings were replaced along with a valve job, seals, gaskets etc...  Got the oil changed at 500 miles post work, as required to keep the warranty valid.  Ran fine until the 1500 mile mark. We took it out to a car show on a very hot day and son ran it for 15-20 minutes with A/C on, idling in one place.  It suddenly made a loud knocking sound and subsequently died.  Towed it back to shop and they said it had no oil in it...nothing...it was dry, which caused it to overheat, blowing the radiator cap, and seizing the engine.  They found no leaks around the oil pan. When they dropped the oil pan, they said most of the rods look okay, except they could see one discolored due to heat stress.  My question is - what could possibly cause the oil to disappear?  It hasn't been smoking, no engine noise, ran fine until that day, so I'm thinking it must have been sudden.  Any ideas to help us?  They don't want to break down the engine because they don't think it's their fault.  Confused  

Post Reply
waynep712222
User
Posts: 124
Joined: 03/13
Posted: 06/07/13 03:43 PM

who changed the oil at 500 miles...  

did they put all the replacement oil in... was it a trusted employee.. or a fresh hire or trainee..

have you checked the oil since the oil change???

when the oil is gone.. stuff happens fast..

was the OIL PRESSURE LIGHT ON?? or the gauge working .. most current fords starting around 1990.. have a oil pressure switch that controls the gauge..   sorry.. it only looked like a gauge..

one might want to carefully remove the oil pressure switch/sender and pressure test it.. it could be the source of a oil leak that will toss out all the oil... and might not leave a lot of tell tale under the car..

i would also want to, if the motor still spins.. do a cylinder leak down test...  since that only takes 2 turns of the crank.. and proves the piston rings might not be at fault..

i would also want to when the heads come off and the cams are removed.. pressurize the intake and exhaust ports while spraying very thin oil at the valve seals.. see if there was a cut seal from the valve job..   that has happened..

if the PCV valve was replaced..??  does it have an OEM ford part number on it.. or was it a generic aftermarket replacement that was sorted by SHAPE.. not flow rates.  and manufacturers have used the largest flow rate valves to cover all applications.. this can pull too much a percentage of oil vapors from the crankcase... this can use up the engine oil at 300 to 400 miles per quart..

just curious.. is the aluminator a dry sump engine like the GT motors are and require significant amounts of engine oil...

i worked in an engine rebuilding shop back in the 90s.. i ran the cylinder head department.  

Post Reply
waynep712222
User
Posts: 124
Joined: 03/13
Posted: 06/07/13 04:03 PM

there is a bunch of stuff about some aluminator failures.. with people who have attempted additional power mods..

then ford whips out the what was done.. and if mods were installed . warrantee void...

TSB1  

Post Reply
waynep712222
User
Posts: 124
Joined: 03/13
Posted: 06/07/13 04:21 PM

an article from another magazine on this site..  there are over 40 car and truck magazines here..


http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/ctrp_1110_engine_failure_analysis/viewall.html

i know this is not your motor.. but its good info to study and put into practice..  

Post Reply
majorv
New User
Posts: 4
Joined: 06/13
Posted: 06/09/13 03:04 PM

Thanks for all the ideas!  We had a lube place change the oil.  Thing is, we can't prove that they put 6 quarts of oil in it.  We saw them refill it from the bulk tank, check the dipstick and then put a little more in, but we didn't check it after we got home.  That's not something we thought we needed to do.

The performance shop is trying to blame the people who changed the oil.  They refused to even drop the oil pan and look at it until we agreed to pay for them to do it, and what they saw was due to lack of oil...not their fault.  It seems to me that you can't say with 100% assurance that other factors didn't play into what happened - like a part failure or install error - without breaking the engine down.  If we have anyone else look at the car the shop will most probably say it was tampered with and will void any warranty they might've honored.  Mad  Frown  

Thanks for your ideas of what else could've caused the oil to disappear, because it tells me that they're taking the easy way out by blaming the oil change place.  We take partial blame for not watching the gauges (assuming it would've given us some warning), and we offered to split the cost to repair at 50/50, but they declined.  

Post Reply
waynep712222
User
Posts: 124
Joined: 03/13
Posted: 06/10/13 05:06 AM

i cannot blame the shop for NOT wanting to cover the warrantee issue when lack of oil might be to blame..

i have thought about some additional questions...

was the oil pressure sending switch replaced when the engine was reinstalled.. or the original reinstalled???  can somebody use an oil pressure switch socket and carefully remove it.. thread it into a shop air line quick connect and hook a pressure regulator to that assembly.. slowly raise the air pressure while several people look at the pressure gauge... and the sensor is dipped in some water with a small amount of dish washing detergent in it..  looking for bubbles that would show it was leaking or not...

shop air pressure directly is TOO MUCH  usually.. and will damage it  ruining the diagnostic test..

i would also want to inspect the oil filter sealing ring.. and the oil filter..  see if it was properly installed.. that the previous filters gasket was removed.. i have found several cars that have lost oil that the gasket from the previous filter came out and stuck to the block..  when pressure came up.. it blew the uncaptured gasket and lost all the oil in seconds..

i would want to examine the oil drain plug.. and the sealing gasket..

see if the sealing gasket fell off.. or was damaged during installation..
or if the threads in the pan were stripped or the threads on the drain plug..


please try to identify the oil sender..  see if its a switch type.. or an actual sending unit..
that will vary the gauge..  or does the gauge come up and stay FIXED in one position..

if the oil pressure sender had NO RESISTANCE when you ohm it.. without pressure.. its a SWITCH..   these types are reversed from earlier light type of sending units..

starting around 1990.. ford started using gauges and switches instead of sending units..

the switches were reversed..  

open circuit at pressures below 5 PSI..

closed circuit at 7 psi and above..

this causes the gauge to come up slightly.. as there is a resistor in the circuit to give the owner an effect of the oil pressure gauge working..

i have contacted one of the manufacturers of sending units and they were NOT interested in a retro fit sending unit to make the gauges work like gauges instead of an idiot light..

i don't have a ford easily accessed to work with a variable resistor to see what specs i should use to make the gauge switch.. i do have a friend with a 90 ranger truck with that system. but he lives over 100 miles away and i only get to see him when something is broken..  or just as he stops by for a few minutes.

one last question.. who drained what was left of the engine oil after the failure.. and how do they know how much was in there.. did they drain it into a drain pan.. or into a commercial drain container that will accept many oil drains at the same time???

if it was a LACK of oil.. i would expect the main bearings.. the rod bearings and the cam journals in the heads to ALL BE DAMAGED..


a single rod bearing failure??????  without damage to the others... not likely..

could the filter media have broken and clogged the internal passages??? thats happened before..

could there have been debris inside the oil filter.. a tiny percentage of a chance..

i hope you get this..  

Post Reply
waynep712222
User
Posts: 124
Joined: 03/13
Posted: 06/10/13 05:11 AM

without asking anybody.. please also inspect the rear wheel wells and rear quarter panels for signs of rubber from a burn out ..

inspect also the tire treads.. see if there is obvious wear from burning out the rear tires..  melted treads. odd tread wear.. examine the fronts and the rears..  

Post Reply