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Item Posts    Sort Order

no spark!! Car won't start

 
cobra85gt
New User
Posts: 5
Joined: 10/13
Posted: 10/09/13 01:36 PM

Hello,

Hoping you all can help.  I have 85 gt, have installed complete MSD 6A system, have driven car many times, but put away for storage for aprox 2 years and now I have no spark.  I have tested MSD box and get a spark jump when arcing purple and green wires at the box. Checked all wires and am connected.  Can this be due to a faulty magnetic pick up??  At my wits end as have spent much time trying to figure it out.  

thanks
Pat  

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waynep712222
User
Posts: 124
Joined: 03/13
Posted: 10/09/13 08:50 PM

unplug the pickup coil from the rest of the harness.

with a digital volt Ohm meter..

set to 2K OHM scale.. (2,000)

measure resistance of the pickup coil..  if its a ford type.   orange to purple wire.

should read around 980 ohms.. or somewhere between 500 and 1500 ohms..

before disconnecting after resistance test.. flip meter setting to 2 volts AC or 20 volts AC.. wires still attached.  have somebody crank the engine.. you need to see over 1.0 volts AC while the rotor is turning.. this proves the reluctor is good..

if you pass the resistance test.. but don't pass the ac voltage test.. the reluctor is bad... or the air gap is wrong. (reluctor to pickup coil )..

please check for spark from the end of the coil wire to ground..

please check for spark from the end of the spark plug wires..

if you get it from the coil but not from the wire end.. the rotor has burned thru..


depending on the MSD box...  please be sure that the large black wire is grounded to the engine block and that there is a braided ground strap from the back of the heads to the firewall..

you will want to verify the grounds...

once you get it running...

Voltagedroptesting  

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waynep712222
User
Posts: 124
Joined: 03/13
Posted: 10/09/13 08:59 PM

if you don't have one of these.. they are the safe way to test for high voltage output with an MSD ignition... regular ignitions bite... these are far worse..



Great Neck/Adjustable ignition spark tester

Part Number: 25069

Alternate Part Number: 64  

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cobra85gt
New User
Posts: 5
Joined: 10/13
Posted: 10/09/13 09:48 PM

some excellent info!!  Thanks for taking the time to send to me!!  I will test tomorrow and keep you posted!!

thanks again!  

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waynep712222
User
Posts: 124
Joined: 03/13
Posted: 10/10/13 01:05 AM

when i posted the wire colors to OHM.. i was thinking that you might still have the duraspark ford distributor.. that has 3 wires coming out..

a black wire  that is the module ground connection to the engine..

orange and purple are the pick up coil wiring on the duraspark pick up coil..

this is not the same color wiring as is on some MSD systems..

please identify each of the aftermarket parts..  

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cobra85gt
New User
Posts: 5
Joined: 10/13
Posted: 10/11/13 10:43 PM

no have all MSD aftermarket.  I tested the magnetic pick up and received a rating of 0, no change in reading whatsoever! I am assuming that it is fried and have ordered a new part.  

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waynep712222
User
Posts: 124
Joined: 03/13
Posted: 10/12/13 04:27 AM

i ask for individual component types from MSD as they make a bunch of different systems for these..

they have magnetic pickup like a duraspark ..

they have hall effect like the TFI ignition..

these test differently..

this is not easy over the net when there are so many variations in parts that could be on a car..

i should have just posted this link to the MSD 2 page booklet on hall effect or magnetic pickup testing..

http://www.msdignition.com/uploadedFiles/MSDIgnitioncom/Support/frm20987_tb_magnetic_vs_optical.pdf

let us know what happens...  

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waynep712222
User
Posts: 124
Joined: 03/13
Posted: 10/12/13 04:36 AM

here is an even better version that describes what i described above..

http://www.msdignition.com/uploadedFiles/MSDIgnitioncom/Support/frm28388_%20tech_bulletin_109_pickups.pdf


except they missed the AC output test to check the reluctor ...


they are smarter than i am..

but i had a brother (rip) that really understood electronics.. and he explained along with my over 30 years of automotive experience how it works..  

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cobra85gt
New User
Posts: 5
Joined: 10/13
Posted: 10/25/13 01:07 PM

so I have replaced the magnetic pick up and the coil and the msd box tests fine also!!  Still there is no spark!!  I have checked connections everywhere and still no spark!!!  What am I missing???  Should I replace the msd box??  I can only think it is the box that is the issue?  

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wayne712222
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Posts: 62
Joined: 10/13
Posted: 10/25/13 09:08 PM

Pictures... post them at photobucket and paste the links here...


no spark from the COIL to the cap.. at the end of the coil wire..

or

No spark from the end of the spark plug wires???

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

when you test the MSD box... do you get spark from the COIL????

could your ignition rotor be burned thru????

and i still DON"T know what the part number is on your distributor so i can look up how to test it...
Msd makes several different distributors..

do you have a copy of the MDS 9615 trouble shooting and hook up manual...

PICTURES really really help...

digital pictures are free.. only the camera costs...  and cell phones have cameras


photobucket is free..  and they actually have a mobile site.. so you can upload directly from your cell phone..  

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wayne712222
User
Posts: 62
Joined: 10/13
Posted: 10/25/13 09:23 PM

MSD testing VIDEO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qb9JxX-mLg  

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cobra85gt
New User
Posts: 5
Joined: 10/13
Posted: 10/29/13 09:58 PM

here are the part numbers:

distributor - 8584
msd box - 6200 (this is quite old, aprox 15 years)

The video you posted on how to test msd box, I have done and got the spark, which should mean the box is fine, but I don't get spark from the coil OR at the spark plugs.  All I have seen would indicate that there is no power getting to the distributor or coil, but it tested fine so I am at a loss.  Especially since everything worked fine when I parked the car 2 years ago.  I have already replaced the coil and the magnetic pick up and am tempted to replace the msd box now too, but would rather save the bucks! Seriously at my wits end!  

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wayne712222
User
Posts: 62
Joined: 10/13
Posted: 10/29/13 10:42 PM

look at the VIDEO.. at exactly 2:00 in...

they have already unplugged the coil wire from the distributor cap... positioned it 1/2" from ground...

unplugged the wiring to the distributor pickup.. on the box end of that wire..

he uses a paper clip to randomly short the two wires together.. each time he touches and releases the contact with two wires. the coil SPARKs...


you should NOT BE getting spark from the pickup coil wiring..

at 15 years old.. the MDS box needs rebuilding.. the capacitors inside are leaking or have blown out..

caps have a 5 year shelf life..  10 years in service. sometimes 15 years...


CALL MSD with the box model and serial number... see if they will rebuild your box..

if not.. replacements are easily available.. there is also a NEAT switch that nascar uses that can switch between 2 boxes on the fly... so if you pick up another box.. you can mount both.. and switch between them...

there are also MSD stand alone distributors now..  

for a short cut to get it started... you can pick up a duraspark ignition box... and wire that up..  thats a cheep way out.. until you can get your MSD back..  but it does take some slight rewiring..

so.   wiggle the jumper on the pair of distributor wires from the box.. see if you get spark..   MSD had fast turn around on testing boxes for yea or ney  

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relmzy
New User
Posts: 1
Joined: 11/13
Posted: 11/22/13 02:41 PM

Hey man,

Thanks for giving me the info thus far, here's the next brainbuster!!!!  I have replaced the msd box with a used one and STILL don't have spark!!!! I got it from a reputable source and know it works, so if everything has been replaced why am I not getting spark still???

thanks again!  

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wayne712222
User
Posts: 62
Joined: 10/13
Posted: 11/22/13 06:59 PM

back to testing the pick up coil...

with a digital volt meter set to 2K Ohms...

measure the resistance of the pickup coil ...    400 to 1300 ohms.. and i think that 700 ohms is what MSD says is really close.. i expect 980 ohms personally.. but i am probably wrong..

on your old pickup .. it measured OPEN.. or 0..  

but you were also getting sparks from the end of the green and purple harness..

i bet you burned out the replacement pick up coil..

test the new one... 400 to 1300 OHMs at 2K setting..

change meter to 2 Volts AC.. either spin the distributor if its out or crank the engine.. you need to see close to 1.0 volts AC or there will NOT be enough AC voltage to turn on the power transistor...   without enough voltage created.. you will NEVER in a million years get spark ...

so.. resistance.. and AC voltage..   if you get resistance. but NO ac voltage.. you either need to adjust the air gap between the pickup coil and the reluctor or the reluctor is bad...

please post results..
pick up coil resistance ..._________________ OHMs...

Pick up coil AC voltage output.. _______________ Volts AC..   __ cranking,   ___ free spinning??


say... did you know.. that if you spin the distributor with the key on and the distributor plugged into the MSD.. it will trigger the ignition coil...

the purple and green wire should never have voltage coming out of it.

it is an input circuit from the pick up coil..  

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