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302 Belts and Pulleys - How Many Do I Need?

 
Gregski
Enthusiast
Posts: 475
Joined: 03/10
Posted: 07/29/10 10:39 PM

I appologize but I'm more confused than a blind lesbian at a fish market! (Oh relax it's a joke for crying out loud) As you know us Mustang II guys get no love when it comes to documentation or parts, and us Mustang II 302 guys get even less, (one chapter to be exact in the Haynes manual, I know I own it). I think it is time to run my water pump before I weld that engine shut starting it without it, so... I have a D5ZE-6312-A2A three groove crank pulley, a D5ZE-8509-AB water pump pulley, and a D7TE-AA 34 water pump.

PROBLEMS:

1. The water pump pulley does not align with any of the grooves on the crank pulley below it. It sits too close to the water pump and should be about 1/4 inch out towards the radiator more. Can I shimmy it with some spacer or do I have the wrong pulley. [History] It came with the engine but was just wedged on the shaft and not bolted on, possibly a transplant.

2. I thought the water pump uses it's own belt, and the alternator uses it's own, (as shown on the black and white photo on my Haynes papyrus scroll). I pulled the alternator off of a 351 '76 Cougar at the Pick N Pull and took the belt with it, because it had a separate belt for it. Went to AutoZone and asked for a water pump belt and they only had what seems like alt and A/P (I know what A/C is and what P/S is, but what the heck is A/P?)

QUESTIONS:

1. How many belts do I need to run the water pump and the alternator?

2. Which bottom grove should I be using for which accessory?

3. From my three groove crank pulley and it's part number can you deduce if this beast originally came with air conditioning, or power steering?

Gentlemen [/Ladies], thank you for reading, and you have no idea how much I appreciate your help so far, I am so close to having this thing done I am tickled pink.

Pulley1

Pulley2

Pulley3  

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cushman350
Enthusiast
Posts: 648
Joined: 07/06
Posted: 07/30/10 08:18 AM

Inside crank groove runs alternator, Water Pump.

Middle Crank Groove runs power steering pump, and water pump as well (Water pump pulley is 2 grooves).

Outside crank groove, closest to radiator runs A/C compressor. This belt will have an idler to clear the water pump. Belt goes from crank to Compressor pulley, to idler, to crank.

On a car without ps or a/c, just one belt, groove nearest engine.  

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gbowden
User
Posts: 63
Joined: 07/09
Posted: 07/30/10 08:27 AM

A/P is air pump.  

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waynep7122
Guru
Posts: 774
Joined: 01/10
Posted: 07/30/10 03:41 PM

greg... the pump pulley does align with the power steering pump and the crank...

the crank does align with just the alternator..


but... try this...    belts are measured by the outside length in inches...

one of the used belts..   with the water pump pulley bolts tight.. wrap the belt around the crank pulley and water pump pulley.. overlap the belt...  place a mark on the top where they pass....    take the belt off.. use a tape measure to measure the distance between the marks...

write that down....  now.. you can go to the parts store.. see what belts they have that are close...

to get it on.. loosen the water pump pulley so the pulley drops .. slip the belt over it..   now tighten the bolts.. this will lift the pulley and snug the belt up.. it might take 2 or 3 trips to the store to get the exact size...   the water pump belt really does not have to be that tight..  but the pulley bolts need to be tight..

so.. you will have a belt that only goes around the water pump pulley and the crank pulley...

belt numbering..    

a 7480 belt.. is 7/16 wide.. 48.0 inches long..
a 15480 belt is 7.16 wide.. 48.0 long..
a 48015 belt is 48.0 long and 7/16 wide...      3 different numbering systems.. one belt size...

one thing.. when tightening the water pump pulley with this set up... it is really important that you turn the pulley each time you take up a little on the bolt.. so you DON"T bend the pulley.. so you don't bend the water pump shaft.. so you don't bend the crank pulley...

need more info...  check your messages...  

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Gregski
Enthusiast
Posts: 475
Joined: 03/10
Posted: 07/30/10 09:09 PM

VICTORY and lessons learned...

Apperantly water pumps built to 03/14/1976 had a 5 3/8" hub height and those built from 03/15/1976 had a 5 3/4" hub height. Monkey tails, how is a man with no car therefore no VIN to know that Ford engineers?, but I digress. So it really don't matter if it's a truck pump i.e. part number prefix D7TE (T for Truck) or a Mustang pump i.e. D7ZE (Z for Zustang) what matters is the "hub height" I would call it hub length cause it don't stick up, but again, tomato - tomatoe.

So why did I replace the water pump rather than just shimming it? Well four reasons:

1. A new "correct" water pump costs only $21.99

2. Ordering a shimmy from Summitt, paying for it, plus the shipping, plus the wait time, didn't make sense.

3. I was also secretly hoping that magically the new water pump would hold the alternator bracket a bit in a different position to where I could actually mount my alternator, i.e. my next task.

4. See one above...

Cheat Sheet. I bet you wonder what's the secret to being a Self Proclaimed Master Mechanic, well that's simple, it's a Cheat Sheet. With our minds filled with NFL, NASCAR stats, and images of the latest Sports Illustrated swim suit models (remember those?) it's kinda hard to remember where the long bolts go when putting back anything, so we turn to the "Cheat Sheet". That's right even the worst of us write things down, cause you're never too green to be a beginner. So in this case I traced the new water pump on a piece of paper and used that as a template for bolt placement. (Yes it would have been way easier to trace the darn gasket that came with the new water pump, but why split hairs.) And every time I removed a bold off of the old water pump I measured it and wrote the size down below the appropriate hole on the... [wait for it] Cheat Sheet! To keep things even more simpler I placed the bolts off the left side of the engine on the left side, and the right side on the ... right side. Did you know this darn thing uses 8 bolts of 5 different sizes?

NOTE TO SELF: Hold off on shooting a Christmas card to Ford this year!

Let there be a Water Pump page: http://www.gregandsandy.com/302/waterpump.htm

Waterpump1

Waterpump2

Waterpump3

Waterpump4  

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Gregski
Enthusiast
Posts: 475
Joined: 03/10
Posted: 08/03/10 11:35 PM

Looking for a similar diagram for a 302 Mustang II. Currently my water pump aligns with the small inside crank pulley and my alternator aligns with the middle crank pulley. I have a belt on the crank and the alternator, but don't know how I can run a belt on the crank and water pump since there is no way to adjust the tension. I do not have an Air Pump, AC, nor Power Steering. I am using 70-73 alternator bracketry hence the misalignment as I believe normally the AC, Water Pump run off the inside crank pulley. I am going for option three below:

Credit for the diagram below goes to http://1970mgr.org/_DriveBelts.htm

70Grabberbelts  

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slud
New User
Posts: 37
Joined: 05/10
Posted: 08/06/10 01:11 PM

Idon't know the Ford number for the right pully, but there is one that will fit, that is way small in diameter, and it will cause the water pump to cavitate at 5500 rpm. ask me how I found out the hard way!!!!  

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cushman350
Enthusiast
Posts: 648
Joined: 07/06
Posted: 08/07/10 08:46 AM

What's the final resting place for your project motor? With the waterpump intake on the driver's side, the more efficient crossflow radiator is a possibility. Old Mustangs have the rad water in and out on the same side and with a downflow rad,is not very efficient.  

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