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Item Posts    Sort Order

Extreme negative camber

 
mark_teresa
New User
Posts: 14
Joined: 06/08
Posted: 04/02/12 10:39 PM

After replacing the shock towers,lower control arms,upper and lower ball joints,springs and strut rods,on my 66 mustang, I went to install the same tires and wheels that came off. While bolting the wheels on I noticed that the tires were making contact with the upper control arms,so much so that the tires will not roll. I looked from the front of the car and can see the tires have extreme negative camber ( the tires are leaning in towards the engine compartment)the only thing I can think of is the upper control arms need a bunch of shim. How much shim can I use? This is a 6 cyl with the original 4 lug drum brakes. After all this work I am stumped  Crazy Suggestions?  

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mark_teresa
New User
Posts: 14
Joined: 06/08
Posted: 04/03/12 10:26 PM

Update, frustrated I started tearing the front passenger side suspension apart. I started with the coil spring, I removed it and checked the height with the old spring.It was the same length!Next I removed the strut rod and then bolted the tire back on. The upper control arm was still rubbing the tire, it was like there was too much space between the upper and lower control arms. It wasnt the spindle,I used the old one so I started looking at the upper ball joint. I had replaced it but used the original upper control arm. I compared the old upper ball joint with the new one and found a substantial difference in the thickness of the mounting flange.I reinstalled the old ball joint (it was still good)and the tire fit a lot better with no rub.Its still not where it should be so the next step is to check the lower ball joint. I bought the lower control arms with the ball joints already installed. Unfortunatly I did not save the old lower control arms so I have nothing to compare it to. I am going to find a high quality lower ball joint and try it.I will post the results.  

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waynep71222
Enthusiast
Posts: 455
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 04/03/12 10:42 PM

there are a few articles in the archives about wheel alignment..

keep the updates coming.. i will have a look tomorrow night..

http://www.mustangmonthly.com/techarticles/mump_0911_the_importance_of_front_end_alignments/index.html

here is another just for reading since you have all your components..

http://www.mustangmonthly.com/howto/mump_1010_installing_fully_adjustable_control_arms_and_strut_rods/viewall.html  

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mark_teresa
New User
Posts: 14
Joined: 06/08
Posted: 04/13/12 12:06 AM

I installed a new lower control arm on the passenger side, but it didnt make any difference.I didnt think it would but I had to try.I went ahead and reinstalled the old coil springs on both sides, that helped a little on the drivers side at least the upper control arm isnt making contact with the tire now, but it is real close.Im not sure what to do next but I will keep the updates coming.  

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waynep71222
Enthusiast
Posts: 455
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 04/13/12 03:29 PM

just curious...

you replaced the shock towers ...

you have a frame dimension chart correct???  

you measured between the originals before you took them apart...

so you were able to measure between the replacements..

were there any spacers behind the upper control arm shafts???

is the engine in the car while you are examining the wheel alignment.. or do you have the suspension locked down with spacer blocks between the bottom lip of the outer frame rail and the bottom of the upper control arm...

without all the weight on the car pushing the front suspension up to ride height.. its going to be crazy..

got pictures.. post them to photobucket...  its free..


120451D1296090548 1966 Mustang Front Clip 64 65Mustangframe  

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mark_teresa
New User
Posts: 14
Joined: 06/08
Posted: 04/14/12 12:00 AM

Yes I measured the originals and put the replacements back as close as I could, however I am not going to rule out the shock tower placement as part of the problem just yet.There were spacers behind the upper control arm shafts and I replaced them just like they came out.I did reinstall the engine to insure the suspension had the correct weight on it as it would have normally.In my last post I said I replaced the new springs with the old ones. The reason for this was when I pushed down on the car or bounced it there didnt seem to be much give in the springs (too stiff)? After installing the old springs I could push or bounce the front end and the wheels would return to an almost normal state, like the entire front end is sitting up too much and when it is pushed down it reutrns to the correct height.I will try to post some pics but it might take a day or two. In the mean time I should recheck those measurements. Thanks!  

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waynep71222
Enthusiast
Posts: 455
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 04/14/12 09:04 AM

the upper half of the chart above is LOOKING AT THE BOTTOM of the car..

so G 21 1/2" is the center to center between the lower control arm pivots..

34 7/16" is probably the centerline of the holes in the top of the shock tower where the shocks stick through..  or it could be the center line of the upper shock mounts.. i don't know..

i don't have my coil spring catalog handy.. but fords have sometimes a dozen different possible springs depending on the engine transmission and AC combos..

i have also had the new shocks so tall that there was when the car was at ride height only 2 inches of travel left.. i did a quick fix on a friends 66 fairlane.. i took some carriage bolts.. ground the heads slightly so i could slip them into the top of the shock tower.. i then stacked washers and then reinstalled the shock bracket..  this allowed the shock to have enough travel..  it also centered the shock in the middle of its travel..  there is probably more room in a fairlane than in a mustang but they share the front suspension..

on my 70 ranchero 302..  i found the new springs were just right for my liking. but just a little short.. i wanted it just a little higher..   i compressed the spring up to the top.. removed the new spring perch.. knocked out the special knurled shank bolts..  replaced them with slightly longer grade 8 bolts.. stuck some grade 8 flat washers under the spring perch on top of the control arm..   this was actually more surface area than the perch cross shaft actually had against the upper control arm..  then a grade 8 washer on the bottom side and then the nut..   this allowed me to fine tune the ride height without needing to remove the springs totally to insert some of the neat urethane discs that are available.


before you removed the shock towers.. did you have the engine still installed.. probably not..  were you able to get a measurement between the inside of the shock towers where the upper control arms bolt in..

did you get a measurement between the ends of the upper control arm bolts..  wait.. what.. ???

that would tell you if the upper control arms are the same distance apart.. no matter changes in the thickness of the new shock tower..

hindsight is a pain.. sorry.. i don't do a lot of frame work..  

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mark_teresa
New User
Posts: 14
Joined: 06/08
Posted: 03/10/13 01:30 AM

Mystery solved! I'm sorry I havent posted anything on here about this problem but my wife's health issues have taken priority over the mustang.So what I found out tonight was the replacement upper ball joints did not fit into the upper control arms correctly. The ball joints came from from a trusted mustang parts supplier, but after close examination and comparison to the originals, I found the mounting flanges were thicker and the top part of the ball joint did not sit flush into the upper control arm due to a larger diameter of the top portion where the zerk fitting is located.I reinstalled the old worn out stock joint back into the control arm and put it all back together. The clearance I needed was there and everythig sat normal.I realize that these differences sound like they wouldnt be enough to make a difference but they were. There wasnt a lot of clearance between the wide tires and the upper control arm before and there isnt now but it is enough to clear and I dont have any worries about the tire making contact.The replacement ball joints look like a one size fits most type of part. Lesson learned, from now on I will compare new parts to the originals more cloesly. Thank you all for your support in trying to fix this problem.  

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