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Mustang coolant spewing

 
rslorenz
New User
Posts: 12
Joined: 01/13
Posted: 01/09/13 06:52 PM

Hey guys, have a 69 coupe with 302. 5k on rebuild. new factory repoduction radiator and heater core about 3 years old. The problem is the car does not overheat. It has a 195 thermostat in it, and if anything it runs towards the 170-180 side. The issue is when driving even on cool days after I give anything more than half throttle the radiator spews a decent amount of coolant from the cap. Enough that everytime i drive I usually have to put half a gallon in. I have one of the funnels that attaches to the radiator to bleed the system. So I don't believe air pocket is the problem. The thermostat is only about a year and a half old. And I've already gone through 3 radiator caps thinking that was it. All 13 psi. Which has always been fine on the car. Any help or tests you know of would be greatly appreciated, Thanks Smile  

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rslorenz
New User
Posts: 12
Joined: 01/13
Posted: 01/09/13 07:25 PM

one more thing I forgot to mention is that I put a pressure tester on the cooling system and it held 13 psi for 1 hour no problem. So I do not believe I have a leak.  

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waynep71222
Enthusiast
Posts: 455
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 01/09/13 08:00 PM

first....     grab the upper radiator hose....  squeeze the hose and release..  is the cap holding pressure????  carefully take the cap off.. look at the disc in the middle of the rubber.. is it spring loaded against the rubber.. or does it dangle??? if it dangles...  get a different part number cap...

i have run into this issue a BUNCH of times...
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next.... is the  bypass hose actually flowing coolant around the system properly.. no kinks preventing circulation..

the bypass hose has to allow the circulation..  or the heat build up in the heads and the block will surge up after shut down...

if the blades on the water pump impeller are rusted away there will not be enough there to push the coolant around...

i normally remove the thermostat... put the housing back on with just a gasket for a flow test..

start the engine and see if the coolant is speeding around through the radiator with significant speed...  yes.. i know this is a messy test..   put a new thermostat back in. if the engine has overheated at all..

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now...   lets look at the radiator cooling fan...   what do you have...  a 4 blade factory fixed pitch fan..  

or do you have a multi blade fan...   there are LOTS of options.. new and used...

ford in the mid 70s through early 80s had some serious 5, 6 and 7 blade flex fans...

there are also various blade count and blade width fans at local parts stores..

depending on your horsepower ... more horsepower requires more cooling

oh.. say.... ford and aftermarket fans are also available in reverse rotation...

there are also REVERSE ROTATION water pumps...

Fordtimingcoverchart

there are a lot of things in the cooling system...

go over some of these.. you could have any or all of them...

will a shop rag hold up by its self when you lay it against the front of the radiator... and slightly rev the engine????  

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waynep71222
Enthusiast
Posts: 455
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 01/09/13 08:28 PM

one more issue... thats found with the cooling system like you describe... but its not a cooling issue...

can you disable the ignition system so NO SPARKS can be created....

disconnect the fuel line at the carb...

extend it into a clear clean plastic 2 or 3 liter bottle...  as you want to see what's going on ..

have a friend .. crank the engine for 15 seconds while YOU watch the pulses of fuel from the end of the hose...   are the pulses NICE AND FULL... not diminishing... each one equal..

you should have around 1/2 a quart in 15 seconds of cranking..

i have run into several fords that had CRUSHED Fuel lines... others that have fuel lines that are totally clogged with sediment..   another that had a fuel pressure regulator that would just barely pass any fuel..

on a big dodge motorhome.. is where i first ran across this issue...  it would overheat only when going up a long grade...  my boss chased that issue for weeks...  replaced the water pump twice... thermostats...  radiator...  do you know how much a motor home radiator costs..  and still it could NOT FIX the problem..   so we put a fuel pressure gauge on the line to the carb.. took it back up the long grade.. as we got part way up the grade.. the fuel pressure got lower and lower.. as we had to lay into the throttle...    what we found..  a RV shop had installed a new generator set in the back of the motor home.. they had cut into the fuel line and installed a Plastic multi tee.. that had the big warning.. NOT FOR FUEL cast right into it..

hah... he did not cut off the smallest tips... so the fuel was trying to flow through a 1/16" hole.. there was enough fuel in that almost 20 feet of fuel line to pass a 10 second cranking full flow test.. but not enough to keep up with the max needs of that engine pushing a BARN of a motorhome up the grade..


on a fairlane with both clogged and partially crushed fuel lines...   i could actually pull a vacuum and it would hold for 20 to 25 seconds with my brake bleeder hand pump... this was in the line directly from the tank...

by the way. did you know that one can.. with a variable speed drill motor and a new universal speedometer cable.. use it like a pluming snake to run it through the bends of the fuel line to check for clogs...  it does take 2 people.. one with gloves pushing it in.. the other at the end holding it straight and running the drill as it winds its way in... this is done with both ends disconnected...   you can extend the back end with hose  to make it easier..


i have also found clogged fuel filters..  . clogged strainers in the tank...   clogged passage in the carb from the fuel inlet to the back side of the needle and seat...

i have also found real DEAD  Bugs in the carb that clogged the main jets.. really hurting the air fuel ratio....   you should have seen the car owners face when i told him that he probably just had bugs in the carb... when i removed the top.. grabbed the tweezers out of my shirt pocket and plucked bugs out of his float bowl..   he was truly amazed..  

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rslorenz
New User
Posts: 12
Joined: 01/13
Posted: 01/10/13 07:48 AM

Thank you for the reply, it has a factory 5 fin fan. The waterpump is one year old and I double checked it wasnt a reverse rotation. I checked the upper radiator hose it holds pressure. No spring dangle either. It doesnt spew the coolant after shutdown. But while you are driving.I can even smell it hitting exhaust while it spews. But sitting idle wont do it. I will check the fuel pressure later to check that- any more ideas? Thank you for taking the time to write all that information Smile  

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waynep71222
Enthusiast
Posts: 455
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 01/10/13 09:19 AM

lean jetting...

head gaskets installed BACKWARDS...    there should be a square corner sticking out the front bottom corner of the cylinder head...  none sticking out the back side...

when this happens... the coolant flow does not go to the back of the block and up through the back of the head as its designed to ... some goes back there but usually not enough to prevent overheating ..   there are additional openings that have to be at the back of the engine..

water pump flow into the block.. around the cylinders   up thru the back of the heads, forward through the heads to the intake crossover...  

if the gaskets are on backwards... much of the coolant flow will go in the block .. up through the front of the block to the front of the head and right into the intake crossover passage...  

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

lastly... you could have a TON of sediment in the cylinder block ...   i have found several engines that were almost full to the deck surface with sludge in the cooling system...

there are several ways if your engine has not been apart in a while...

pull the freeze plug in the side of the block... near the back...  dig out the sludge with a screw driver...  flush with water...  this makes a HUGE mess... that you really don't want to spill all over the place...

one can also remove the thermostat...   disconnect the radiator and heater core hoses...  so you don't over pressurize them...   hook the garden hose to the heater hose on the manifold..

leave the bypass hose hooked up.. but the lower radiator hose is off.. and the heater hose fitting on the water pump is blocked...   with your hand over the water pump outlet..  let the block fill.. once full.. you will need some shop rags or create a tapered plug for your air nozzle. and pressurize the cooling system ... this will blow the water in the heads backwards through the block and may clean out the sediment through the water pump backwards..

this has to be done several times...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  

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54packman
Enthusiast
Posts: 342
Joined: 11/09
Posted: 01/10/13 01:52 PM

Do the rad hoses build pressure quickly, like less the 5 min running from a cold engine, and the motor not really hot yet? Do you notice any tiny bubbles like the bubbles in  a glass of coke, or even smaller in the rad? could be a very small leak in the head gasket, from the combustion chamber into the coolent, there is a tester,  that goes on the radiator neck, that you put a special liquid in, and if the liquid changes colour you know that carbon monoxzide is coming up throught the cooling system  

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rslorenz
New User
Posts: 12
Joined: 01/13
Posted: 01/11/13 10:38 PM

I also had thought about that, and have gone to every auto parts store around here as well as sears. And they know what I'm looking for but it shows them not being available as if they were discontinued. So if anyone knows where I can get one of those let me know. I will continue to test and post my results as they come in-thanks again for the help  

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waynep71222
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Posts: 455
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 01/12/13 12:41 AM

some parts stores still sell the combustion leak testers.,

i have a different way...


ever done a cylinder leak down test... where you position each piston.. one at a time at TDC compression stroke...   charge the cylinder with compressed air and monitor the coolant level..  monitor the intake and exhaust... as any flow from those passages indicate valve seat sealing issues...    i have tried this with cylinder leak down testers..

but when i am looking for results.. i have found that if i use a compression tester hose with the valve core removed and stored safely to reinstall later...   that the compression tester hose does not have a restriction the cylinder leak down hose does..

a proper remote starter button is also really handy...

i showed this trick to my former boss... a mechanic with like 45 years of experience.. and he was floored at how good it worked.. and how i was ABLE TO PROVE leaking head gaskets or combustion chambers in just a few minutes without a tear down...

i have also done this with the rocker arms off.. and each of the pistons at Bottom of the stroke. this tests the cylinder walls for cracks also.

if you are interested in the block tester also.. post what chain parts stores you have nearby that you deal with...  AZ.  OReilly.. carquest.. napa.. pepboys..  

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54packman
Enthusiast
Posts: 342
Joined: 11/09
Posted: 01/13/13 12:33 PM

snap on tools , and mac tools has them. I tried to pressurize the cylinders on a subaru once, the compression was great, pressurized the cylinders with 150lbs, and no bubbles in the rad, yet when running it would blow coolent out the overflow within a few min, and rad hoses where cool, yet hard with the pressure. I had picked up a tester a yard sale for $5 and it found i had CO in the rad, so i pulled the engine, and then the heads, and found very small spider like lines in the head from the combustion chamber to the water jacket. had both heads machined,and checked for cracks and put them back on and no more bubbles. BTW the leak checker looks very much like a penis pump lol  

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54packman
Enthusiast
Posts: 342
Joined: 11/09
Posted: 01/14/13 08:10 AM

here is one web site that has them, also snap on and mac tools has them. http://blockchek.com/  

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rslorenz
New User
Posts: 12
Joined: 01/13
Posted: 01/17/13 08:36 AM

Hey guys update. All the above local stores could not get that tester. I got in touch with matco and they are sending me one that should be here on monday. I also found my bypass hose has a kink in it. Small but I put a new one on anyways to be sure. I also checked and th e head gasket is on correctly by looking at the tabs. I did compression test and they are all even but not leakdown. But since I have that tester coming ill just use that. By the way I put a mr gasket 180 thermostat in too.  Still think its wierd I was running colder but my rebuikd is syill pretty fresh so i dont believe to have any gunk in there. Weather has been crappy so ill have to wait a couple days to take her for a ride. Thanks again for all your help. I will postmy findings.  

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waynep71222
Enthusiast
Posts: 455
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 01/17/13 09:15 AM

just to help out forum members get past the WHAT? question from the counter men...  the fluid is a BUY... but the block tester at least at my local az are in the loan a tool section behind the counter.. jot down the part numbers below..   the 25 you get back when you return the tool clean and complete..  you get to keep the fluid...

OEM/Block Tester Test Fluid
Part Number: 25739
Price: $7.99 at az


OEM/Block Tester
Part Number: 27145
Price: $25.00


might be the same part numbers at some other stores...  

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rslorenz
New User
Posts: 12
Joined: 01/13
Posted: 02/03/13 09:15 PM

So the final verdict has been shown to me. After using compressed air through each cylinder via compression tester and draining the coolant. I found oil in the anti freeze. I used the leak detector and sure enough blown head gasket. Now supposedly when I had machine work done the block was checked for straightness and my heads were milled. This engine never over heated nor did it lose more than a quarter of radiator in coolant. Im pulling the heads off and taking them to another machine shop to be checked for warpage. If its out of line I fully plan to pursue the machine shop for shoddy work. I looked the receipts and I rebuilt it only 3 years ago. And have 4 k on the rebuild. I want to thank you guys for all of your help with helping me with ideas for finding the issue  

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waynep71222
Enthusiast
Posts: 455
Joined: 04/12
Posted: 02/04/13 05:05 AM

oil in the antifreeze is usually a cracked block...   cracked deep in the oil galleys

antifreeze in the oil could be any of the three failure modes..  blown head gaskets, cracked heads cracked block,

i had a BBC that cracked down the #3 cylinder wall in the lifter valley and up the number 4 right thru the cam bore.. it would pump oil into the cooling system and also had coolant in the oil...

before you remove the cylinder heads .... be sure to blow all the coolant from the block....  either use compressed air... with the radiator disconnected ...  or a wet or dry shop vacuum...  this prevents coolant in the cylinders..


buy a BEAM type torque wrench to measure break away torque of each of the head bolts..    

when you get the heads off... read the impressions on both sides of the head gasket fire rings.. look for spots where it was burned through the sealing area.. tightly sealed head gaskets will show metal to metal contact...  carbon or discoloration in areas shows signs of leakage..

3 years is probably out of warrantee...  you might want to call the machine shop first...   most have melt taps hidden on a freeze plug to show that the engine did not over heat which would void the warrantee...  



if you are going to reinstall fresh heads... there is some prep work... i will come back and add to this thread..

if you don't find burned head gaskets...  you will want to have the block pressure checked... which is a complete tear down sometimes...   i have carved thick clear plastic blocks and bolted then with silicone sealer over the water passages on the intake side of the heads , blocked the various other hoses then used a radiator pressure tester to pressurize the block and heads with the intake and valve covers off to examine for leaks...    all the spark plugs in... all the rocker arms off..  

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