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Item Posts    Sort Order

Over Heating Head Issue?

 
Shawns66Mustang
New User
Posts: 28
Joined: 01/08
Posted: 04/22/13 09:12 AM

I’m hoping that someone will be able to help answer my questions about water jackets/ports in stock versus new aluminum heads.
I have a 1971 302 that I put in my 66 couple, I’ve had a lot of issues with it over heating in traffic or at idea. I have a new three row aluminum radiator, aluminum water pump w/ high flow pulley, new six bladed fan about 1” off the radiator, new hoses, four new thermostats, running 50/50 coolant and I’ve tried adjusting the timing and the carb. The next thing on the list is a fan shroud, which I’ll do. In an attempt to figure out what was going on with the engine, I took the temp of the heads with a temp gun, and the front of the head was around 150 degrees and the first header tube was around 600 degrees, the back of the heads was at 500 degrees and the last header tube was over 800 degrees so that when I decided to pull the heads and do some further investigating, and yes the head gasket was installed correct.
I took a look at the new Edelbrock Performer heads, the stock heads and the block, I noticed that the block and stock heads have a water port above each cylinder, and the Edelbrock heads do not. I call Edelbrock and was just told “Ya that’s how there’re made” which didn’t leave me feeling real confident.
Do you think the lack of a water port in the Edelbrock head is a problem?
Do you think that 500 degrees at the back of the head is to hot?
Can you think of anything else I can try for the over heating?
I tried attaching pictures of the heads and block but couldn't.  

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waynep712222
User
Posts: 223
Joined: 04/13
Posted: 04/22/13 12:39 PM

ford head gaskets can easily be installed WRONG

look at your head gaskets..

the front of the engine.. sticking out from under the cylinder head you should see a SQUARE CORNER...|_   and on the rear .. NOTHING should be visible..

with the corner sticking out of the front on both sides..

this leaves the extra openings at the back of the head gasket available.. to properly cool the heads..


the coolant flow should be from the water pump.. around the cylinder walls.. to the back of the engine.. up thru the back of the head gasket into the back of the head... then forward thru the head to the intake crossover... where its blocked by the thermostat... and forced thru the bypass hose to go around again and again... until it reaches the opening temp of the thermostat...



if one or both headgaskets are installed backwards.. the that side will have the coolant go from the water pump into the block.. around the first cylinder and upward directly into the intake manifold coolant crossover...

there will be NO flow at the back 3 cylinder and the rear 3/4th of the head..

if you have gotten the engine as hot as you describe..

you will probably want to RERING the engine... carefully measure the pistons..

check the block and cylinder head surface with a machinests straightedge to check for warpage..

and regrind the valves..   probably replace the valve springs.. as they will be damaged from the excessive heat...

i use hylomar on any head gaskets i install with aluminum heads now a days.. i don't have time to do them a second time...

more to come.. i have an image i have to find to show you what i am talking about..

up in an hour...  

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waynep712222
User
Posts: 223
Joined: 04/13
Posted: 04/22/13 01:50 PM

Ford Headgasket Installation Direction Zpsf6d2bdc0  

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waynep712222
User
Posts: 223
Joined: 04/13
Posted: 04/22/13 02:07 PM

i should also point out that with the thermostat installed and a proper temp selected..

because the thermostat is blocking the flow into the radiator .. the hot coolant in the radiator is stopped and allowed to be cooled by the fan...

but also..

the water pump is circulating coolant into the block.. up thru the back of the heads.. forward thru the heads where its blocked by the thermostat.. the bypass and heater hoses are where it gets bypassed thru..  

because the bypass and the heater core passages are smaller than the water pump can flow.. the restriction there at cruising speeds increases the mechanical coolant pressure inside the block and heads above the cooling system pressure if you measured it at the radiator..

the increase in mechanical pressure of the coolant in the block and heads increases the boiling point of the coolant..

this stops the hot spots around the exhaust ports, exhaust valve seats... valve guides and spark plugs from boiling the coolant there..

each pound of pressure increase raises the boiling point 3F..  

Post Reply
MustangMan
Moderator
Posts: 261
Joined: 08/11
Posted: 04/23/13 08:02 AM

Double check the Edelbrock instructions. I recently installed a set of Trick Flow brand aluminum heads and we had to drill the block deck for steam hole/water passages using the head gasket as a template. This was for pre-'72 blocks.

Mdmp 1205 016 Heads Cam Intake Top End Evolution

Mdmp 1205 019 Heads Cam Intake Top End Evolution

Trick Flow Heads Cam Intake Upgrade Tips

This could very well be an issue with the Edelbrocks as well. Compare the gasket to the head and block and call Edelbrock back to confirm if necessary.

HTH...
Mark
.  
Mark Houlahan
Brand Manager
Mustang Monthly Magazine

1965 FFR Roadster 427W/TKO-600 5-speed
1966 Mustang 289-4V/C4 Auto
1968 Mustang 4.6L Three-Valve/5R55S Auto
1990 Mustang 306/AOD
2002 Explorer Sport Trac 4.0L V-6/5R55 Auto
2005 F-150 4x2 4.2L V-6/4R70W Auto

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Shawns66Mustang
New User
Posts: 28
Joined: 01/08
Posted: 04/24/13 08:28 AM

waynep712222, Thanks for your response. The head gasket was installed correctly, I’m aware of the gasket issues with the small block ford. I’ve also tried four thermostats, a 160 and 180 , and then I 160 and 180 high flow thermostat.

MustangMan,I’m going to call Edelbrock again and hopefully get someone more knowledgeable about the heads. I have one of the heads in the back of the car so I’m going to drop by a local machine shop and ask them  

Post Reply
Shawns66Mustang
New User
Posts: 28
Joined: 01/08
Posted: 04/24/13 01:19 PM

Mustangman, you might be on to something. I did some more research on line and found the below info.  I called Edelbrock and ask them what years are considered early and late, but they weren’t able to answer it, there now 0 for 2.  I must have an early block because I have the water port or steam hole directly above the cylinders. I’m assuming a late model will already have the steam holes?

INSTALLATION: Before final installation of the cylinder heads, several things need to be checked to assure proper engine operation:
1. Check the upper deck to see if you have an early or late model block (not needed with 351-W): a) Late model 289-302 blocks have the water
passages located next to the head bolt location on the deck of the block (This block will not require drilling). b) Early 289-302 blocks will
have the water passages located directly over the cylinder upper deck area and will require drilling 1/8" steam holes as seen in Figure 2.  

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Shawns66Mustang
New User
Posts: 28
Joined: 01/08
Posted: 04/24/13 03:52 PM

Here’s another question, The Edelbrock destruction’s say to drill two hold to the side of pistons #1 & #4. I’ve read other people say drill the steam hole next to all eight cylinders?  

Post Reply
waynep712222
User
Posts: 223
Joined: 04/13
Posted: 04/24/13 11:11 PM

a few questions from wayne..


which timing cover are you running??? which water pump....      

which belt system.   is it turning the normal top of the water pump pulley toward the drivers side???

or is the top of the water pump pulley rotating toward the passenger side..

the front of the engine being 150.. and the back of the head being 500 is WRONG..  

are you sure that you did not measure right over an exhaust port???  

i am taking that this motor is spitting out coolant as soon as it warms up for over 2 minutes..  maybe 3 minutes...


another thing.. could the block be filled with sediment??  preventing proper coolant flow..

and you are sure that the passages in the head gaskets were toward the transmission bell housing end of the engine...

why do i specify.. some marine engines are installed BACKWARDs... and yes.. i know you know this.. that the timing cover end of the motor is the FRONT of the engine.. i am just thinking back to an engine that was returned for overheating issues.. it was a boat motor that had the heads installed  in the boat...  of course.. the head gaskets were both on backwards...  the reply was.. it said front.. so we put them in the proper direction..   toward the front of the boat...   ARRR..

so you have a BYPASS hose and circuit installed... so the coolant flows constantly around the engine.. as i described above...    rear ward in the block .. up thru the back of the heads. forward thru the heads to the water cross over in the intake..  where it goes around thru the smaller bypass elbow until its reached the thermostat opening temp..

can you thread a 30 or 50 psi pressure gauge into the intake coolant passage?  check the pressure with the engine running ??? when you get it back together???  

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MustangMan
Moderator
Posts: 261
Joined: 08/11
Posted: 04/25/13 07:20 AM

The TF instructions said to drill all eight holes to match the gasket, and we did. We've had no cooling issues with the build to date (including dyno runs)...

If you're going to mark and drill the block I'd do all of them for even coolant distribution/steam movement...

Mark
.  
Mark Houlahan
Brand Manager
Mustang Monthly Magazine

1965 FFR Roadster 427W/TKO-600 5-speed
1966 Mustang 289-4V/C4 Auto
1968 Mustang 4.6L Three-Valve/5R55S Auto
1990 Mustang 306/AOD
2002 Explorer Sport Trac 4.0L V-6/5R55 Auto
2005 F-150 4x2 4.2L V-6/4R70W Auto

Post Reply
cushman350
Enthusiast
Posts: 648
Joined: 07/06
Posted: 04/27/13 08:38 AM

From TF instructions:

Note that the large coolant holes always go toward the rear of the block. If you have a pre-1972 block or a 351 SVO block, you must modify
the coolant passages in the deck surface as shown in . Using the head gasket as a template, drill into the water jacket at the
locations shown with a 3/16 in. drill bit. This modification must be done to prevent overheating due to steam pockets forming in the high side of
the block. Be sure to tape off or otherwise cover the deck surface and cylinder bores when you are drilling.


8685375565 4B6801e095  

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