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Torn between two powertrainss....

 
ganoleman73
New User
Posts: 1
Joined: 11/13
Posted: 11/26/13 12:31 PM

Please , some hep from the experts here....I am embarking on restoring my 73 convertible and am torn between two options for the drivetrain.  I want a mean muscle car feel and sound but plan to stay 100% orignal as possible on body, interior.  I expect to beef up the suspension and brakes to handle the bump I want in the engine.  Target HP rnage ~300

Keep the original 302-2v or swap for an available 351 C?  The car original was a 302-2v so keeping it original has some appeal but the 302 just doesn't seem to have the power that the classic 351 C has.  The cost will be more as I will have to buy the entire drivetain outright and rebuild it while my engine is just a straight rebuild.  The second question is the 351C is mated to an FMX.  The mechanic tells me it's the prferred tranny to mate with the 351 C?  Any truth to that?  My 302 has a classic C4.


Thoughts, Ideas?  

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wayne712222
User
Posts: 105
Joined: 10/13
Posted: 11/26/13 02:02 PM

stroke the 302..

come out with either 331 cubic inches or 347 cubic inches ..

type those numbers in above right in the search window.. click search,  then pull down the new centered search window to search the performance group..

you will find all kind of articles on both motors..

you might be able to even keep the 2100 series 2 barrel carb..

look at the side of the carb behind the accelerator pump pull rod..  there is a number cast into the side of the float bowl...
the smallest carbs are 1.03   and the biggest i have seen are 1.28. but i hear a 1.32 size is available..  you probably have a 1.12 or 1.14 on yours..


bigger carb.. more possible air flow..  don't loose your carb...   increased jet sizes are available for these also...


you will want to think ahead.. and install an oxygen sensor bung on exhaust pipe.. or.. on the side of the collectors if you are going to install headers..  this way you can fine tune the carb ... so you get the best part throttle air fuel ratio.. so you still get decent MPG..

so many ways to go...  but a stroker allows you to continue with the 302 size and everything fits..   a 351W would be the next step up..  a 351C would be nice..

72 and 73 models have enough engine bay to slip a 429 or 460 into..

the mailman at a former job i had had a 72 notch back with a 429 motor wedged in from the factory.. he thought it was a 351..

what you do to the drive drain is up to you..

the 351C can bolt in front of C4's C6's and FMx transmissons.. they all have the same windsor bolt pattern.. if you have the right bellhousing pattern..

you could also.. perhaps install an AOD transmission so you have overdrive also..

if you go with the overdrive.. and a 4 barrel.. look at the summit branded carbs.. they have a version of the holley 2010 2011.. thats a decendant of the 4100 carbs.. and have easy to change idle transition feed restrictions.. so the off idle to 2000 rpm range can be tuned properly..  

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Bill T.
Enthusiast
Posts: 283
Joined: 04/08
Posted: 11/26/13 02:24 PM

I vote for modifying the 302.  It will cost less, be closer to original, and everything fits.  Getting 300 HP from a 302 is not difficult.  
Bill

1966 coupe
1995 Cobra R

Post Reply
cushman350
Enthusiast
Posts: 635
Joined: 07/06
Posted: 11/27/13 11:27 PM

And the torque will be fun. I built a 347, approx. 375 hp in 1998 and just this year went full retrofit roller cam and rockers, over 400hp and it even gave it more vacuum signal. The wonders of new technology.  

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shyrgfuh3
New User
Posts: 24
Joined: 11/13
Posted: 11/30/13 07:12 AM

depends on your bank roll.

stroke 302 to 331 but 347 is much faster,

vhange gearing to at least 3.23, 3.43 and 3.50 will get you there faster.

the fmx is a pos but can be built decent by an old trans guy. c6 is the ticket in a cleveland.

you need aluminum heads with a stroker, you do not with either 2v or 4v cleveland.  

Post Reply
MustangMan
Moderator
Posts: 259
Joined: 08/11
Posted: 12/02/13 08:33 AM

I concur with the above. Build a nice stroker from the 302. I used to daily drive a 347 stroker with 450hp. You can go a bit milder on the cam, no custom port work (stuff I had) and still make an honest 350-375 just bolting it together.

Upgrade to a 3.50 gear or so and it'll be a fun car without having to resort to the Cleveland and all of the conversion parts required to get it to work (mounts, headers, engine front dress, etc.)

HTH...
Mark
.  
Mark Houlahan
Brand Manager
Mustang Monthly Magazine

1965 FFR Roadster 427W/TKO-600 5-speed
1966 Mustang 289-4V/C4 Auto
1968 Mustang 4.6L Three-Valve/5R55S Auto
1990 Mustang 306/AOD
2002 Explorer Sport Trac 4.0L V-6/5R55 Auto
2005 F-150 4x2 4.2L V-6/4R70W Auto

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dond1965
New User
Posts: 13
Joined: 11/13
Posted: 12/24/13 10:03 PM

do you care about fuel mileage? if you do rebuild the 302. convert to a hydraulic roller cam. use a holley 670 cfm 2-v tbi injector. keep the c-4, put a 2400 rpm stall torque converter in it. use about a 2.5 rear gear. mate a gear vendor UNDER DRIVE to the transmission, use this in under drive around town. use it as a gear splitter for hard acceleration. shift into direct on the high way for good fuel economy. if you want some extra power, use a 125 horse nitrous plate on a 4-v manifold under the tbi unit. Tongue  

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dond1965
New User
Posts: 13
Joined: 11/13
Posted: 12/25/13 10:19 AM

check out www.enginekits.com [aka power house] they have killer deals on parts/rebuild kits. their kit for the 302 has pistons,rings,gaskets,oil pump,brass freeze plugs,cam-rod-main bearings,flat tappet lifters,reground cam,timing set... for $179.00!! if you want the 302 i have a plan... go to a rebuilder and trade up your heads for late explorer gtp casting heads [make sure they have the GTP casting mark]. M.A.C. makes shorty headers for those heads. get the rebuild kit,ask for cam and lifter delete,and upgrade to the best timing chain they carry [or the $79.00 gear drive-highly recommended].they also sell roller rockers for $177.00. get the hydraulic roller cam change over parts from a rebuilder. use comp cams hyd. roller cam #35-510-8 rated from 1,300-5,300 rpm. p.s. get a new harmonic damper from them for $145.00. ask for the flat top pistons. the money you save on the low cost rebuild will help pay for the under drive and efi upgrades that will repay you in fuel savings!! Grin  

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dond1965
New User
Posts: 13
Joined: 11/13
Posted: 12/25/13 05:00 PM

just to show how easy it is to make 300 horses with the 302, i did a comp cams CAMQUEST6 dyno-sim for you.... 4.06 bore x 3.0 stroke, 9 to 1 comp. ratio, std.flow/dual plane manifold, 670 cfm 2-v throttle, small tube headers with mufflers, gasoline fuel, the lowest flowing heads i could choose...the 2-valve, sport compact units, with air flow figures of 182 cfm intake at 0.500 lift, 134 cfm exhaust at 0.500 lift. i substituted the sport compact valve sizes of 1.52 x 1.30 for valves that are 1.80 intake, 1.50 exhaust. i used the hydraulic roller cam #35-510-8 as per above with specs of... 208-216 degrees duration at 50, 112 degrees LSA, 0.533"-0.544" valve lift. the cam picker predicts....326 horses @5,000 rpm, 381 LBS. FT. @ 3,500 through the mufflers. when i juiced it with a 125 shot of nitrous power shot up to 451 horses at 5,000 rpm!!! Cool  

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